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Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

theguardian.com

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Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#211

Post by the-dude »

goldbrick wrote: post #198
the-dude wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cops probably would get called, they might shoot. Police is trained to shoot to disable, not to kill. Sometimes they need to of course. Then if there is any doubt they would be prosecuted and jailed if they overreacted ( this happens ). Of course these situations are extremely rare as Western Europe is not as a violent society as the US is. edit: to add: private citizens carying tasers ( let alone guns ) around i…

"shoot to disable" is not a thing.

You are welcome to visit.

edit: this was in reply to 'if you are, you are living in fantasy land'. which OP edited away. lame.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#212

Post by tptacek »

dmschulman wrote: post #203
tptacek wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what happened. Snow was an irresponsible dog owner; his dog jumped on Nieto. That happens to me on walks once every other week. I am rarely murdered as a result. What made this situation special was that Nieto was armed with a taser. When Snow's dog assaulted him, as poorly managed dogs do, Nieto prepared to zap it with the taser. Snow tried to tell Nieto not to tase his dog (the DA investigation says that…

The dog is Snow's property. His irresponsibility as a dog owner set off this series of events. The victim did not threaten a man's dog out of spite, he felt threatened by the animal and Snow's actions (or lack there of) escalated this unfortunate situation.

What did I write that made you think I would disagree with that? He was a shitty dog owner, and an asshole. There are millions of shitty dog owners and even more assholes (and that is an overlapping Venn diagram if ever). He was also probably a racist --- that text message did happen, and the DA report suggests he's a firearms enthusiast as well. He's a creepy guy I don't ever want to meet.

That doesn't make him in any way responsible for Nieto's death. Sorry, it just doesn't.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#213

Post by akavi »

tptacek wrote: post #145
wambotron wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people said he seemed agitated and nervous when their dogs were walking about by him. I imagine if a dog just charged at you and was barking/howling while its owner was staring at someone's ass, you'd be on edge for a bit as well.

No shit! I agree. I read the first half of the first graf of the story angry at Solnit, for singling out this guy and scare-quoting his occupation. Then I got to the bit about the dog jumping up on Nieto and the simpering excuse-making this guy made about that and I instantly got angry at the guy instead. What an asshole! That lasted a couple minutes. But "poorly managed, barking dog jumps up on someone" happens mill…

> he ... had confronted (and tased) several people in that park

Do you have a cite for that? Cursory googling doesn't seem to pull it up.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#214

Post by raldi »

pc86 wrote: post #192
raldi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the Copenhagen Theory of Ethics ( https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth... ), once you rent an apartment to someone for a particular price, you have a moral obligation to continue doing that forever.

I don't see the word "rent" anywhere in your linked article but maybe a synonym is there somewhere. Regardless, if you agree to rent $PROPERTY to $TENANT and I you want to sell me $PROPERTY, I don't see why I should be bound at all to any agreement with $TENANT outside of letting their current lease expire. I don't buy that there is any moral obligation in the first place but to extend that to third parties seems a b…

I don't buy it either, but the majority of SF voters do.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#215

Post by pm24601 »

mooseburger wrote: post #79
RVuRnvbM2e wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether he did or not is almost irrelevant. The police wouldn't have even been there if some dude hadn't decided to call 911 on the guy for "walking while hispanic": > Fritz said he only saw Nieto pacing near a bench and eating from a bag but did not himself see any weapon. http://missionlocal.org/2016/03/witness-testified-alex-nieto...

>"walking while hispanic" I'm hispanic, Puertorican to be exact. Guy seemed to be dressed like a hoodlum in all images I can see in the article. I get nervous when I see people dressed like that here in San Juan, and he definitely would have seemed shady wandering around in a park, alone, dressed like that. Sure, maybe it's not tolerant to judge someone like that based on what they wear, but at the same time, I can't…

> Sure, maybe it's not tolerant to judge someone like that based on what they wear, but at the same time, I can't fathom why an innocent would insist on literally dressing like a gangbanger.

Can I judge you based on this statement?

Note: I am judging you based on your attitude not just how you look, therefore it is not prejudicial.

Seriously, why should it matter what someone wears? You may not be friends with them or date them.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#216

Post by tptacek »

akavi wrote: post #213
tptacek wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No shit! I agree. I read the first half of the first graf of the story angry at Solnit, for singling out this guy and scare-quoting his occupation. Then I got to the bit about the dog jumping up on Nieto and the simpering excuse-making this guy made about that and I instantly got angry at the guy instead. What an asshole! That lasted a couple minutes. But "poorly managed, barking dog jumps up on someone" happens mill…

> he ... had confronted (and tased) several people in that park Do you have a cite for that? Cursory googling doesn't seem to pull it up.

I misread an article summarizing the DA report. He had, three weeks earlier, repeatedly tased someone as they were putting their kid in a car. He had not tased people at the park.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#217

Post by JoeAltmaier »

tptacek wrote: post #201
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, sorry, I meant for morbidity claim.

I don't have good statistics, but late last year I went through the Guardian's police shooting database and bucketed all the killings in a spreadsheet, and I was startled to see how many people were killed by tasers. Tasers are dangerous.

I see that Taser combined with drugs or alcohol can increase risk of heart arrhythmia. That seems to be responsible for most of the deaths. Police Officers would encounter those folks more often than the general population.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#218

Post by the-dude »

dbpokorny wrote: post #207
the-dude wrote: post #44

From a European perspective this is more 'Death by police state' than anything else.

It sounds like suicide by cop, which is a real thing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

Are you implying death by police state is not a thing?

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#219

Post by tptacek »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #205
pm24601 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no... Solint is using Snow as a narrative for representing the attitudes the gentrification brought into Alex's neighborhood. The attitudes that lead to Alex's death. SoInit is not presenting all the facts because that is not a journalist's job. She has only a limited amount of space (yes even on the web) to work with. But why are you talking about the messenger rather than the message?

Because it hits too close to home.

It hits 2,257 miles away from my home in Chicago.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#220

Post by goldbrick »

the-dude wrote: post #211
goldbrick wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"shoot to disable" is not a thing.

You are welcome to visit. edit: this was in reply to 'if you are, you are living in fantasy land'. which OP edited away. lame.

Please provide one piece of evidence that police anywhere are trained to "shoot to disable".
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