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Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

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Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#21

Post by zenogais »

vitno wrote: post #15
fiatmoney wrote: post #8

You'd think that someone could just come out and say exactly which of his views are so terrible, instead of pointing at his entire multiple-book-length blog and "wow just wow"ing.

The character of Moldbug (which I don't even know if it is actually what the author truly believes, it was always designed as a pen name) is a neo-reactionary. Ex: He is definitely a racist, with the belief of genetic differences in attitude that contributed to slavery. [1] Now, I don't like those beliefs at all. I do think that LC made the right decision though. Inclusiveness is a good policy, and no matter how cert…

As a note the original article for this thread is about LambdaConf. StrangeLoop is the conference that chose to ban this particular speaker.

I assume by SL you mean LC?

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#22

Post by f0code »

"That I shall not talk or act in ways that could make minority groups feel bullied, harassed, intimidated, stalked, stereotyped, or belittled; examples of minority groups include women, people of color, lesbians, gays, and people who are disabled, bisexual, transsexual, asexual, intersex, transgender, and gender-variant;"

So as a member of the majority, I'm expressly the only person bound by these rules of behavior in this pledge. My allowed attendance would be contingent on remaining silent the entire time on premises.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#23

Post by vitno »

zenogais wrote: post #21
vitno wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The character of Moldbug (which I don't even know if it is actually what the author truly believes, it was always designed as a pen name) is a neo-reactionary. Ex: He is definitely a racist, with the belief of genetic differences in attitude that contributed to slavery. [1] Now, I don't like those beliefs at all. I do think that LC made the right decision though. Inclusiveness is a good policy, and no matter how cert…

As a note the original article for this thread is about LambdaConf. StrangeLoop is the conference that chose to ban this particular speaker. I assume by SL you mean LC?

ahh. Now I see where the confusion is. Yes. I do mean LC.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#25

Post by sthatipamala »

f0code wrote: post #22

"That I shall not talk or act in ways that could make minority groups feel bullied, harassed, intimidated, stalked, stereotyped, or belittled; examples of minority groups include women, people of color, lesbians, gays, and people who are disabled, bisexual, transsexual, asexual, intersex, transgender, and gender-variant;" So as a member of the majority, I'm expressly the only person bound by these rules of behavior i…

No, one member of such a group is also bound to conduct themselves relative to members of another such group.

One way that one could attend is to not say offensive things. Yes, anything could be offensive and you have no way of knowing a priori. But a reasonable person should be able to sort things out.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#26

Post by groby_b »

f0code wrote: post #22

"That I shall not talk or act in ways that could make minority groups feel bullied, harassed, intimidated, stalked, stereotyped, or belittled; examples of minority groups include women, people of color, lesbians, gays, and people who are disabled, bisexual, transsexual, asexual, intersex, transgender, and gender-variant;" So as a member of the majority, I'm expressly the only person bound by these rules of behavior i…

You will need to remain silent if you bully, harrass, intimidate, stalk, stereotype, or belittle. It's contingent on actual behavior. Which was kind of the point of the whole article.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#27

Post by f0code »

sthatipamala wrote: post #25
f0code wrote: post #22

"That I shall not talk or act in ways that could make minority groups feel bullied, harassed, intimidated, stalked, stereotyped, or belittled; examples of minority groups include women, people of color, lesbians, gays, and people who are disabled, bisexual, transsexual, asexual, intersex, transgender, and gender-variant;" So as a member of the majority, I'm expressly the only person bound by these rules of behavior i…

No, one member of such a group is also bound to conduct themselves relative to members of another such group. One way that one could attend is to not say offensive things. Yes, anything could be offensive and you have no way of knowing a priori. But a reasonable person should be able to sort things out.

A reasonable person doesn't need to be told to be respectful.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#28

Post by f0code »

groby_b wrote: post #26
f0code wrote: post #22

"That I shall not talk or act in ways that could make minority groups feel bullied, harassed, intimidated, stalked, stereotyped, or belittled; examples of minority groups include women, people of color, lesbians, gays, and people who are disabled, bisexual, transsexual, asexual, intersex, transgender, and gender-variant;" So as a member of the majority, I'm expressly the only person bound by these rules of behavior i…

You will need to remain silent if you bully, harrass, intimidate, stalk, stereotype, or belittle . It's contingent on actual behavior. Which was kind of the point of the whole article.

See Donglegate.

Re: Wrestling With Inclusion at LambdaConf

#29

Post by EdHominem »

> In the end, we all converged on the same opinion: that LambdaConf should focus on the behavior of attendees, rather than their belief systems.

And that wasn't the starting point? What a joke!

> We would never allow a violent criminal to attend LambdaConf.

Yes, you would. You'd be sued if you didn't. They did their time and (presumably) got out or the question would be moot. If they (or anyone else) threatened someone, see the next point.

> There is always a line. There must be one. The question is, where do we draw that line?

I've run conferences for years where the only policy of that sort is that we won't hesitate to call the police.

It's worked perfectly because if someone follows someone else to harass them that's illegal despite the subject matter. Harassing someone for liking the wrong pokemon is just as actionable as harassing them because they're the wrong gender. If the person isn't harassing anyone they're free to their opinion no matter how odious.

The police are very helpful in explaining "a disturbance" and how someone is creating one!

And here's the answer to threats, violence, etc. They get arrested. Not expelled. Not shamed. Arrested. Treat it like you'd treat random street crime and have them arrested.

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