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U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#21

Post by tlrobinson »

brian-armstrong wrote: post #6
georgespencer wrote: post #3

One of three things is true: 1. The FBI is lying to save face, 2. Someone -- but probably needs to be some people -- from Apple is willing to help them, 3. There is an undisclosed vulnerability in iOS which Apple is unaware of. I find it really hard to believe that someone would disclose a zero day exploit to the FBI without charging significant $ for it. Am I missing something obvious?

I am guessing they caught wind of possibly losing the case and don't want the precedent set. That's what this was always about, right?

Yup, FBI wants a do-over next time one of the "Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse"[1] emerges.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalyp...

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#22

Post by btilly »

georgespencer wrote: post #3

One of three things is true: 1. The FBI is lying to save face, 2. Someone -- but probably needs to be some people -- from Apple is willing to help them, 3. There is an undisclosed vulnerability in iOS which Apple is unaware of. I find it really hard to believe that someone would disclose a zero day exploit to the FBI without charging significant $ for it. Am I missing something obvious?

My money is on #3.

While it is likely true that nobody will give zero days to the FBI without charging, it is also basically certain that the NSA has a collection of them. And the NSA has enough interest in this problem, and enough willingness to share with the FBI, that that may be a tractable solution.

Furthermore the FBI certainly doesn't want to create a precedent they don't like, and the fact that we're only in this situation thanks to THEIR incompetence is not helping them.

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#23

Post by TillE »

bcook wrote: post #12

They could just contact geohot... In some ways I suspect that the FBI's arguments are a smoke-screen to keep us from talking about the fact that unknown 0-days exist and perhaps the NSA even has a few.

It's not a very good smoke screen, since the most probable interpretation of the filing is that the NSA has an exploit.

At least one security expert reported they were rebuffed by the FBI when they offered to help, so I seriously doubt the "outside party" is outside the government.

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#24

Post by ParadoxOryx »

theintern wrote: post #15
RichieAHB wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4. They don't want to allow precedents to be set that aren't the precedents they were looking for.

Could you elaborate on what you mean here?

They don't want to lose and have a precedent set that doesn't allow them to do what they want.

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#26

Post by Johnny555 »

valine wrote: post #18

So basically they're saying, "This isn't going according to plan. Let's wait for another opportunity and try again."

And lets screw over Apple by claiming that we can crack the phone after Apple claims that no one can.

We'll never have to prove it, so we win, Apple loses.

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#27

Post by nostromo »

I suspect that the intelligence and law enforcement communities are afraid that if this case goes to the Supreme Court the All Writs Act may be scaled back or ruled unconstitutional.

The All Writs Act goes back to 1789 and is used for all sorts of things, like wire tapping, obtaining call and ISP records, etc., and now trying to force Apple to make malware for their own phone.

It's definitely a risk for the FBI to fight this battle and potentially lose a tool they use all the time. Since there is probably no new info on the phone, it may not be worth the risk of making this a big fight with a motivated and well-financed adversary like Apple.

Re: U.S. Says It May Not Need Apple’s Help to Unlock iPhone

#29

Post by lisper »

georgespencer wrote: post #3

One of three things is true: 1. The FBI is lying to save face, 2. Someone -- but probably needs to be some people -- from Apple is willing to help them, 3. There is an undisclosed vulnerability in iOS which Apple is unaware of. I find it really hard to believe that someone would disclose a zero day exploit to the FBI without charging significant $ for it. Am I missing something obvious?

It's not an undisclosed vulnerability. The iPhone 5 is not particularly difficult to crack. It requires mucking with the hardware, but a skilled amateur could do it.
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