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Why we should fear a cashless world

theguardian.com

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Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#191

Post by Symbiote »

flatline wrote: post #136
lagadu wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By storing your cash in a bank, you are exposed to both the bank's insolvency Only for very large amounts, at least in Europe, the central bank insures your money from its own reserves in case of bank failure up to a certain amount, AFAIK typically in the hundreds of thousands of €/local equivalent.

If a bunch of banks go under at once, or even one big bank with a sufficient number of claims, who's to say the insurers will even be able to pay out on that? Nonetheless, I always find this type of apocalyptic thinking to be humorous - why do people think that their cash will be worth anything if the financial system collapses? Another motivation would be if you are concerned about having your assets frozen.

The central bank pays.

As an example, in the UK personal deposits of a failed bank are guaranteed by the Bank of England up to £75,000.

The Bank of England can always cover the amount, since they can simply print money as needed.

http://www.fscs.org.uk/what-we-cover/products/banks-building...

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#192

Post by Symbiote »

scott_s wrote: post #104

The concern for economic fairness is, I think, a real one. There is a disparity in most economies between the people who are banked, and those who are unbanked. Going "cashless" favors the banked, and that is a problem. I don't know how to address this. But, I disagree with one of the authors' other claims: "Cash has its uses for small transactions – a chocolate bar, a newspaper, a pint of milk – which, in the UK, ar…

The card companies in the UK try to encourage people to pay by contactless card (debit or credit) for low value items. That's perhaps no surprise.

Transport for London, who run the public transport in London, are encouraging people to use contactless debit/credit cards rather than their own stored-value card system or cash.

In Denmark I've had the man selling sausages from a wagon on the street ask me to pay by card. I guess he didn't want to bother going to the bank, or carry all the cash around.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#193

Post by xixi77 »

Many very good points there, and it's definitely nice to see this suggested from the left.

Although:

- "We already live in a world that is, as far as the distribution of wealth is concerned, about as unequal as it gets. It may even be as unequal as it’s ever been." -- I keep seeing this kind of statement all over. It seems really, really hard to believe, presuming that "ever" includes antique or even more recent feudal societies, but perhaps there is something to it -- perhaps it might be true under some measure of inequality?!

- "Today more than 6 billion people have a mobile phone" -- similarly, I really don't see how this could be true, as it seems to imply something close to 100% market penetration worldwide for most age groups. I can see how there might be 6 billion mobile phones (or phone numbers?) active, but 6 billion distinct people?!

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#195

Post by abawany »

analog31 wrote: post #194

In my view, long before the government realizes the full potential of abusing a cashless society, private businesses will have bled us dry -- especially the poor -- with transaction fees.

This comment strikes hard for me given that I am also reading Sen. Elizabeth Warren's book A Fighting Chance. It is remarkable how much greed pervades these "stodgy old banks".

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#196

Post by bryondowd »

xixi77 wrote: post #193

Many very good points there, and it's definitely nice to see this suggested from the left. Although: - "We already live in a world that is, as far as the distribution of wealth is concerned, about as unequal as it gets. It may even be as unequal as it’s ever been." -- I keep seeing this kind of statement all over. It seems really, really hard to believe, presuming that "ever" includes antique or even more recent feud…

6 billion out of a global population of 7.125 billion is just over 84%, so not that unbelievable, particularly considering how quickly a usable phone becomes worth approximately zero in the first world.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#197

Post by squozzer »

The article itself is somewhat misleading - cash, i.e. currency, does depend on the issuing institution's integrity and the willingness of people to accept it.

Was a bit surprised to see The Guardian echo certain viewpoints heretofore only heard from preppers.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#198

Post by xixi77 »

nmrm2 wrote: post #149
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Govt doesn't actually pave anything. Roads are a commodity. There are a half-dozen pavers in my small community of 50,000. If the costs are in the $100K per thousand feet, they are that for everybody. Again, $M for a few hundred feet is nonsense.

Parent said METERS, not feet. So parent is saying maybe 8mil for a mile. Not insane to assume low volume work in a presumably remote area will be double or triple the price that the entire state of Florida can get. Especially for a previously unpaved roadway with bridges that probably also needs widening, leveling, etc. That isn't patch work cleaning up existing paved road... The number is high but not unfathomably s…

As has been said, road paving is a commodity business, so the reason why this particular road might be that expensive is probably that it's a remote road on difficult terrain.

Which raises the question: should this very expensive road, which is primarily used by members of this specific and admittedly wealthy community, be subsidized by the rest of (relatively) poor taxpayers of that state?

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#199

Post by kungtotte »

ersii wrote: post #46
staticelf wrote: post #17

The best tip ever for saving to only spend cash. When you have the physical money leaving your hands it feels like a lot more than inserting a card and pressing a pin code. I am mostly using cash if I have the possibility to, which is kind of annoying sometimes since in Sweden (where I live) there are many "cashless" shops. Even in normal grocery stores checkouts it's like 50/50. I've never visited a country that has…

Just wanted to tell you that you're not alone in Sweden with using and liking to use cash. There's at least one more - Hi! I haven't encountered a single grocery store that refuses cash and only accepts electronic/card payments yet. Was this a chain supermarket?

Many stores run a 50/50 setup these days, if they're large enough. That is, half the registers are card only, the other half accept both. I've seen it in Willys, Coop, and ICA.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#200

Post by BuildTheRobots »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #99
pc86 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a super easy fix for that, if the people have the will to demand it: require receipts for all transactions, allow consumers to report business who do not give receipts, and have large fines for businesses who still don't. Offer cash rewards to consumers who report businesses that are repeat offenders.

Italy does that. You are fined if you cannot show a receipt as a customer. People still want discounts.

> You are fined if you cannot show a receipt as a customer.

Italy fines the customer rather than the shop keeper, or did I misunderstand what you said?

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