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Why we should fear a cashless world

theguardian.com

91–100 of 257 posts

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#91

I've been "cash only" for 8 months now and I love it. Of course I need a credit card if I buy something on Amazon or a one-off web store, but the point is to move as many transactions offline as possible. There are so many privacy benefits to using cash, but one that really resonates with me is the physical nature of it. When you pay for something with cash, you can feel the transaction of money exchanging hands and…

Funnily enough, I'm the exact opposite. Mentally, money in my account is "my money". Cash I've withdrawn feels like already-spent money. Since it's unaccountable, I tend to spend it more frivolously. Might be a generation-to-generation thing.

I never realized this, but I do this too.

I think the mentality comes from using your bank's website/mint/etc to track your spending. Anything done with a card becomes a specific line item staring you in the face; cash, however, just falls into "miscellaneous".

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#92

I've been "cash only" for 8 months now and I love it. Of course I need a credit card if I buy something on Amazon or a one-off web store, but the point is to move as many transactions offline as possible. There are so many privacy benefits to using cash, but one that really resonates with me is the physical nature of it. When you pay for something with cash, you can feel the transaction of money exchanging hands and…

Funnily enough, I'm the exact opposite. Mentally, money in my account is "my money". Cash I've withdrawn feels like already-spent money. Since it's unaccountable, I tend to spend it more frivolously. Might be a generation-to-generation thing.

[deleted]

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#93
post #53

Here in Italy the big issue is that many business will just not declare cash transactions. It's pretty common not to be given a receipt when buying a coffee and often when you visit a doctor they'll say: do you want the invoice or a discount? A couple of friends got married recently and I found out they paid over half of what the owed in cash to get pretty decent discount. So before we talk privacy and company let's…

> Here in Italy the big issue is that many business will just not declare cash transactions. It's pretty common not to be given a receipt when buying a coffee and often when you visit a doctor they'll say: do you want the invoice or a discount? 1) Require receipts for all transactions. 2) Offer 10% of recovered cash for anyone you report who doesn't follow #1. Add the penalty on top of any recovery [e.g. Current Fine…

Portugal has implemented 4) a couple years ago.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#94
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cost for society You meant "cost for government," right? It sounds like the slice of society that gets the cash discount is benefiting greatly from this "hidden economy." Saving 50% on a venue is a big win for the newlywed's pocketbook, leaving more money in their pocket to buy goods for their new household.

True. If you don't believe the government has any role to play in, say, paving roads, maintaining bridges, etc, then there's no "cost for society". Well, until the bridges start falling down, anyway...

Ah, the tried-and-true roads & bridges argument.

No, I don't believe the government is necessary to do those things.

But if you look at actual government spending, these sorts of infrastructure projects are dwarfed by things like military spending, which could use a reduction.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#95
post #73
post #53

Here in Italy the big issue is that many business will just not declare cash transactions. It's pretty common not to be given a receipt when buying a coffee and often when you visit a doctor they'll say: do you want the invoice or a discount? A couple of friends got married recently and I found out they paid over half of what the owed in cash to get pretty decent discount. So before we talk privacy and company let's…

>>let's remember that this kind of hidden economy has a huge cost for society and it's very widespread in southern Europe. Any where, where there are cash transactions this is an issue. In India, apart from salaried people taxed at source almost anybody else rarely if ever pays taxes. Its assumed taxes are only what stupid people pay. And since they make up for a huge vote bank, any move to introduce reforms for cash…

Mostly I think that peoples support for paying taxes is proportional to the perceived value they receive from them, and how fairly they are being applied (c.f. Denmark vs. USA - and note that "perceived" is important, and subject to manipulation)

I don't know the details, but plausibly could you argue that India's real problem lies in government inefficiency and/or corruption?

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cost for society You meant "cost for government," right? It sounds like the slice of society that gets the cash discount is benefiting greatly from this "hidden economy." Saving 50% on a venue is a big win for the newlywed's pocketbook, leaving more money in their pocket to buy goods for their new household.

> You meant "cost for government," right? Well, depends on if you want a government capable of affording to pay for public education, roads, military, etc. I mean if you care about none of these things and want the government completely destroyed, a 50% revenue cut might seem okay to you.

Of course I care about those things. I simply think that government is not required to provide them.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#97
post #53

Here in Italy the big issue is that many business will just not declare cash transactions. It's pretty common not to be given a receipt when buying a coffee and often when you visit a doctor they'll say: do you want the invoice or a discount? A couple of friends got married recently and I found out they paid over half of what the owed in cash to get pretty decent discount. So before we talk privacy and company let's…

There's a super easy fix for that, if the people have the will to demand it: require receipts for all transactions, allow consumers to report business who do not give receipts, and have large fines for businesses who still don't. Offer cash rewards to consumers who report businesses that are repeat offenders.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#98
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. If you don't believe the government has any role to play in, say, paving roads, maintaining bridges, etc, then there's no "cost for society". Well, until the bridges start falling down, anyway...

Ah, the tried-and-true roads & bridges argument. No, I don't believe the government is necessary to do those things. But if you look at actual government spending, these sorts of infrastructure projects are dwarfed by things like military spending, which could use a reduction.

Let's keep in mind we're talking about Italy here. So the knee-jerk "BUT DRONES" response is probably less accurate than if we were talking about the US or the UK or something.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#99
post #97
post #53

Here in Italy the big issue is that many business will just not declare cash transactions. It's pretty common not to be given a receipt when buying a coffee and often when you visit a doctor they'll say: do you want the invoice or a discount? A couple of friends got married recently and I found out they paid over half of what the owed in cash to get pretty decent discount. So before we talk privacy and company let's…

There's a super easy fix for that, if the people have the will to demand it: require receipts for all transactions, allow consumers to report business who do not give receipts, and have large fines for businesses who still don't. Offer cash rewards to consumers who report businesses that are repeat offenders.

Italy does that. You are fined if you cannot show a receipt as a customer. People still want discounts.

Re: Why we should fear a cashless world

#100
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. If you don't believe the government has any role to play in, say, paving roads, maintaining bridges, etc, then there's no "cost for society". Well, until the bridges start falling down, anyway...

Ah, the tried-and-true roads & bridges argument. No, I don't believe the government is necessary to do those things. But if you look at actual government spending, these sorts of infrastructure projects are dwarfed by things like military spending, which could use a reduction.

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