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Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

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Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#81

Post by JupiterMoon »

wojt_eu wrote: post #39
JupiterMoon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No! If an offence is criminal it can't be magically made OK by a contract. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.

Wouldn't it make it impossible under California law to have an agent that impersonate me? Have them tweet from my account, reply to emails in my name etc.

I have no idea. My post was more general and about principles rather than specifics. I have no knowledge of the specifics of the relevant terms of service for this company, I also don't know whether they form a binding contract in the relevant jurisdiction or what things are specifically legal to do in contracts in the relevant jurisdiction.

I repeat that I am not a lawyer so if this is important to you then hire a lawyer in your local jurisdiction to advise you, don't listen to random people on the internet.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#82

Post by donatj »

iopq wrote: post #76
dchest wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, every giving would be stealing. If I gave you something, you didn't steal it from me. Likewise, if I gave you the right to impersonate me in particular circumstances, it's not a criminal offense if you do.

If your Windows EULA said "Microsoft can take any of your property" they still can't steal from you just because you agreed to it.

It would no longer be stealing because you agreed to it. This is why repossession is legal.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#83

Post by arikrak »

SirNoobsAlot wrote: post #17

Want to know something funnier? I am a non-HR and non-recruiter employee at my company and I can see recruiting tab (angel.co/candidates). On a related note, I try to avoid applying to jobs through AngelList. I'll usually go directly to the company website itself and apply.

I don't even think you need to be confirmed at the company. I think once you put yourself as an employee of any given company, you can see their applicants, but they may have fixed this issue.

Though overall AngelList seem like a site that's focused on helping startups (and investors), and unlike most sites, they don't even charge for their job listings.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#84

Post by ams6110 »

svckr wrote: post #72
OJFord wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent is replying to a comment stating: > If an offence is criminal it can't be magically made OK > by a contract. I think this must be mistaken (IANAL either). Boxing, assisted suicide, and voting by proxy come to mind.

The quote sounds right to me. If the act of impersonating someone is indeed a criminal offense, you can not smooth that over with a contract. Voting by proxy is not impersonation, you give someone the right to act (vote in this case) in your name. Thus, no criminal offense. The other cases: Assisted suicide is a criminal offense in many countries. For example (similar, but not the same), there has been some legal str…

Yes, I think the difference would be are they representing you or impersonating you. I.e. did the other party know.

I can give my voting proxy or power of attorney to someone else, but it's pretty clear to anyone paying attention that's what's going on. If the email said "This is AngelList on behalf of J. Random Employee" that would be different than sending an email that had every appearance of being from the employee.

Even if this is allowed in their TOS, it's pretty underhanded if they buried something like that in boilerplate that they know nobody reads.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#85

Post by tobltobs »

bachback wrote: post #51
MichaelBurge wrote: post #8

Depending on the details, it could be a minor felony for fraud.

AngelList is likely trying to determine whether this is a real company. How is that felony or fraud?

Like if someone charges your credit card to determine if the number is valid?

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#86

Post by OJFord »

svckr wrote: post #72
OJFord wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent is replying to a comment stating: > If an offence is criminal it can't be magically made OK > by a contract. I think this must be mistaken (IANAL either). Boxing, assisted suicide, and voting by proxy come to mind.

The quote sounds right to me. If the act of impersonating someone is indeed a criminal offense, you can not smooth that over with a contract. Voting by proxy is not impersonation, you give someone the right to act (vote in this case) in your name. Thus, no criminal offense. The other cases: Assisted suicide is a criminal offense in many countries. For example (similar, but not the same), there has been some legal str…

    > you give someone the right to act (vote in this case) in
    > your name. Thus, no criminal offense.
Right, it would be an offence, except that you've given express permission; so it isn't.

Assisted suicide is, yes. But my point is that we have separate legislation for it, implying that is required.

Boxing, again, that's my point.

Regarding identity specifically, what I imagine we're talking about here is an automated message much like LinkedIn's:

    > Hi, I'd like to add you to my network! *
Do we have a problem with this too?

* Or whatever it is. Point being, it says "I"; not "Mr Ford".

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#87

Post by ams6110 »

OJFord wrote: post #60
IanCal wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison to stealing is frankly ridiculous, as the law doesn't say you can't transfer money. It will explicitly talk about consent. If contracts allowed you to agree to anything then minimum wage laws couldn't work. Which side the impersonation laws fall on will depend on how they're written.

What about boxing, martial arts sparring, fencing, assisted suicide, and voting by proxy? The point here is that you either _can_ contract your way out, or (what I suspect is the case) there re exclusions in the law were relevant. Either way, it suggests this might not be illegal if covered by something blindly tick-boxed.

You seem to be opertating under the delusion that the law is logically consistent. It isn't. There are some things you can allow by contract/permission and some things you cannot, and circumstance matters.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#88

Post by DrJokepu »

donatj wrote: post #80
JupiterMoon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No! If an offence is criminal it can't be magically made OK by a contract. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.

There are many things that would be illegal without a contract that are legal with one. That's kind of the point.

Illegal is not the same thing as criminal, the latter being a very special subset of the former.

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#89

Post by NetOpWibby »

tobltobs wrote: post #85
bachback wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AngelList is likely trying to determine whether this is a real company. How is that felony or fraud?

Like if someone charges your credit card to determine if the number is valid?

BOOM

Re: Tell HN: AngelList told my employer that I'd updated my profile

#90

Post by Cartwright2 »

halotrope wrote: post #56

Thank you for sharing the news. I have just deleted my account. In case someone has problems as well finding out how: 1. Click your profile picture on the top right corner 2. Click settings in the dropdown. 3. Click Delete account 4. ? 5. Profit

Before deleting your account you should edit out and overwrite as much information as possible. Things like your name, e-mail, and any other fields should be falsified before deleting. You have no way of knowing if their "delete" mechanism just flips a deleted bit or if it actually erases your data.

The problem, in this case, is that the company might notify your employer that you're making those changes. Not sure what I'd do in this case. It might be worth creating some dummy accounts to see what actions actually trigger notifications.

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