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School grades are hopelessly broken

marco.org

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Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#51

Post by jbeda »

hga wrote: post #49
jbeda wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data from http://gradeinflation.com/ (posted in another response) suggests that MIT is worse than average for grade inflation.

A thought: In the period from 1980 or earlier to the dot.com crash, ~ 400 students in each MIT class were majors in the EECS department ("Course 6"). With a class size of ~ 1050, that's 38% of the students. In the early '80s EECS drastically changed it's core curriculum (or at least the CS part of it, SICP/6.001 was the start), and it definitely got better at teaching it. If that also gave the students a better found…

The source doesn't break out EECS from the rest of MIT. To be fair, though, this looks to be really long term data. If you dig into the numbers (http://gradeinflation.com/MIT.html) things look a lot more steady over the last 30 years. It looks like there was significant inflation through the 1960s but it flattened out since then.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#52

Post by hga »

jbeda wrote: post #51
hga wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thought: In the period from 1980 or earlier to the dot.com crash, ~ 400 students in each MIT class were majors in the EECS department ("Course 6"). With a class size of ~ 1050, that's 38% of the students. In the early '80s EECS drastically changed it's core curriculum (or at least the CS part of it, SICP/6.001 was the start), and it definitely got better at teaching it. If that also gave the students a better found…

The source doesn't break out EECS from the rest of MIT. To be fair, though, this looks to be really long term data. If you dig into the numbers ( http://gradeinflation.com/MIT.html ) things look a lot more steady over the last 30 years. It looks like there was significant inflation through the 1960s but it flattened out since then.

It's very important to look at the time series, for the '60s were a special case of giving (male) students high enough grades so that they wouldn't flunk out and become eligible for the draft and service in Vietnam. I don't know about MIT's history of grading in that period, but I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#53

Post by grinich »

jbeda wrote: post #32
grinich wrote: post #6

On the topic of grade inflation: In 1966, 22% of Harvard undergraduate students earned A's. By 1996, that figure rose to 46%. That same year, 82% of Harvard seniors graduated with honors. In 1973, 31% of all grades at Princeton were A's. By 1997 that rose to 43%. In 1997, only 12% of all grades given at Princeton were below the B range. (source: Source: American Academy of Arts & Sciences) One of the best things abou…

The data from http://gradeinflation.com/ (posted in another response) suggests that MIT is worse than average for grade inflation.

In looking at MIT, it's important to note that they grade on a 5.0 scale. I'm assuming these are readjusted, but its not stated anywhere.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#55

Post by chrischen »

liquidben wrote: post #44
chrischen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boring does not equal BS-y. BS work is pointless, while boring might be understandably necessary. The authors complaint was of BS work, not necessarily of boring work. You can tell if he is simply avoidant of boring work by seeing if he carries out projects which he sees value toward, and whether or not he does everything, including the boring stuff, to completion. I'll admit his article doesn't actually give insight…

I think the grandparent post's application of quotation marks around "BS" subtly speaks volumes, i.e. perception of the bullshit value of a job is potentially invalid. Marco's essay reads as if he's got a pretty unilateral opinion about the worth of things. A person is allowed to deem something BS, but they've got to be open to potential compromise. Apparently someone once thought over-designing the O-rings on the sh…

I assumed the article's definition of BS is stuff that is universally BS.

Frankly if something isn't BS, the reason can be properly explained. And if the subject can't understand the reason why, then he/she is not ready to do the work.

So whoever over-designed the O-rings must have had a good reason to do so. If he/she had a good reason, it is by definition no longer BS (it may still be boring grunt work). If not, then they were just lucky that it worked out.

Re: School grades are hopelessly broken

#56

Post by chrischen »

timwiseman wrote: post #38
chrischen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boring does not equal BS-y. BS work is pointless, while boring might be understandably necessary. The authors complaint was of BS work, not necessarily of boring work. You can tell if he is simply avoidant of boring work by seeing if he carries out projects which he sees value toward, and whether or not he does everything, including the boring stuff, to completion. I'll admit his article doesn't actually give insight…

If he manages to be his own boss (startup, small company, etc) then that is precisely right. However if he has a job(and he states he does) then his value as an employee is about him carrying out the projects his boss(es) see value in. Of course, a good boss will try to explain why the tasks he is assigning are important so the employees will see value in it too. Sometimes that is not possible. For instance, perhaps…

You're absolutely right. Frankly I wouldn't want to hire only people who do what they feel like. But then again I would also recognize their true potential and wouldn't have them working under someone following explicit directions. They'd get a promotion from me and given more freedom. I'll hand those people problems, not instructions like the rest of the working population may receive.
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