Interesting parallel with Lavabit pointed out at the end of the article. Would the DOJ be willing to risk shutting down the biggest and most profitable corporation on earth over this?
[deleted]
Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist
51–60 of 376 posts
Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist
#52Taking this further down the rabbit hole: Suppose that only about 5 people can do what the FBI wants done. Suppose all 5 refuse, to the point of quitting Apple. Does the FBI now compel them to return to Apple and write the software or go to jail? And what if one of those engineers says that he doesn't actually know how to do it; Apple only thought he could, but he actually can't. Now we get into territory of proving…
There are a lot more than 5 people who can do what the FBI wants done. Your hypothetical doesn't really seem all that relevant.
I'm not sure you understand the word 'hypothetical'. The point is to explore the idea.
Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist
#53Taking this further down the rabbit hole: Suppose that only about 5 people can do what the FBI wants done. Suppose all 5 refuse, to the point of quitting Apple. Does the FBI now compel them to return to Apple and write the software or go to jail? And what if one of those engineers says that he doesn't actually know how to do it; Apple only thought he could, but he actually can't. Now we get into territory of proving…
If a password is considered testimony and protected by the 5th Amendment, software also appears to be testimony and covered by the same. If not, then software is just speech and protected by the 1st Amendment. Not speaking is then a valid choice seeing as to how this is not testimony and one is not compelled to speak by the court. But this is just theoretical...
Since corporations are people, they should be able to plead the 5th as well.
Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist
#54This is very much a case of civil disobedience. Non-violent struggle is a surprisingly effective tactic. As Gandhi states: >You can chain me, you can torture me, you can even destroy this body, but you will never imprison my mind.
>You can chain me, you can torture me, you can even destroy this body, but you will never imprison my mind. He said that in the 20th century. Imprisoning the mind is the province of the 21st century. Both governments and pseudo-"activists" now seek to do this by leveraging the Internet.
All it will take to "imprison the mind" is convincing enough people to use a system that gives positive reinforcement when your friends act "correctly". Normal social behavior will do the rest. China (with Tencent) is already trying this, and Facebook has at least explored this area[2].
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI
[2] https://consumerist.com/2015/08/05/facebook-patent-would-all...
Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist
#55the EPIC quote comparing backdoorization for a security dev to euthanasia for a doctor is weirdly confusing; it flips the script on personal freedoms.
It compares it to forcing a doctor to do an euthanasia. If you want to kill yourself, don't force me to do it, find someone who will willingly do it.
Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist
#56Son, go to your room!
But I don't want to go to my room!
Son, go to your room!
Mommy, what would happen if on the way to my room I ran into a pack of wild dogs in the hallway blocking my path? Would I still have to go to my room?
Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
The DOJ couldn't shut down apple. Apple has $200,000,000,000 in cash and marketable securities. DOJ's budget is only 27 billion. That's a lot of lawyer time. It's a huge waste of money, but there it is. Way less likely, but Apple could move HQ to another country. And take their secret source code and keys with them.
I wonder if there's any advantage for Apple to form their own sovereign nation to operate out of. They are already richer than many existing countries. Can't they just buy out a Singapore-sized island somewhere?
I've always thought of Singapore as the "Apple" of countries. Incredibly modern, clean, organised, and well-presented. But run according to very strict rules, like banning chewing gum entirely, and $500 fines for littering.
Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
If a password is considered testimony and protected by the 5th Amendment, software also appears to be testimony and covered by the same. If not, then software is just speech and protected by the 1st Amendment. Not speaking is then a valid choice seeing as to how this is not testimony and one is not compelled to speak by the court. But this is just theoretical...
Since corporations are people, they should be able to plead the 5th as well.
Sure, but in this case Apple isn't being accused of anything so the 5th amendment doesn't apply.
Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, if you can draft people to go over to Vietnam and be shot at by the NVA...
I just mentioned how this could be interpreted as a draft to my mother who grew up watching the Vietnam draft, and she immediately brought up an interesting question: "Can you be a conscientious objector?" Given that nobody is being put in a position where they might have to use deadly force, the usual pacifist or religious arguments don't apply. While suspect it would be hard to extend the concept to the orders give…
I'm not saying I'm a conscientious objector, but I write a whole lotta bugs under stress conditions. This may take a while ...
Re: Apple Encryption Engineers, If Ordered to Unlock iPhone, Might Resist
#60No matter what happens in this case, to the individual engineers or to Apple, the problem runs much deeper:
- Government power and rights > individual power and rights. - Mass surveillance of their own people. - Constitution consistently ignored. - Civil liberties viewed as an annoyance. - Militarized police force. - Secret court systems that "OKs" any government action. - Mainstream media little more than an arm of government propaganda. - Whistleblowers treated like criminals. - Indefinite detention laws ready to be used for any reason. - Can justify any action in the name of "national security". - Political class rules all.
We have a word for this type of government but but no one is talking about it yet. Whatever the outcome to Apple, a government like this will try again and find other ways to do what they want.