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Ask HN: Helping a dev who drinks?

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Re: Ask HN: Helping a dev who drinks?

#32
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever tried coding on weed? #doesnotwork

I've never tried, but I've always read the opposite. I've seen many claims of coding better when high. Then again, I've seen many claims of playing pool better when drunk, and that's definitely not true.

No, it really doesn't work.

Re: Ask HN: Helping a dev who drinks?

#34
He is a liability. Drunk on the job is a big problem, and acknowledging it makes it worse. The fact that he needs to be escorted/guided home brigns it to a whole other level. It probably voids whatever e&o insirance you have in the event of a problem. And when the intern dumps him on his couch and he ends up drowning in vomit, the family will sue everyone.

The guy will implode. The smart move is to figure out how to get rid of him.

Re: Ask HN: Helping a dev who drinks?

#35
My family, and quite a few friends, have a serious history with alcoholism so this scenario is very familiar. I think it's worth thinking about this in two ways simultaneously: As a humanitarian and as a business decision.

From the first angle, I believe (and others might disagree) that you have an obligation to offer as much support to this person within your capabilities. Understand however that there is nothing you can do to change them - they have to determine that it is a problem that they need to fix. This person KNOWS that they have a problem. Hallmark of an alcoholic is denial - but rest assured they know that it's a problem.

So then how do you help? Well it all depends on the situation. Your team hovering over in amazement while they code certainly doesn't help as it just feeds the idea that "I'm at my best when I'm drunk." Which is clearly temporally bounded.

Unfortunately there is no single solution, and simply pointing you toward AL-ANON or AA is kind of the nuclear option in most cases. Also don't assume that this person cares about self preservation as much as you do. If they just lost all of their important connections, they are likely severely depressed, but my guess is that they are mostly LONELY.

You aren't going to solve that overnight, but it might be possible to find ways to reduce their loneliness. Ask them to dinner, go bowling, whatever it is that would be good. Depending on their personality this might work better as a group or as individuals YMMV.

Alternatively you could force the issue hard by letting them know that this is unacceptable behavior. This one is risky though because this usually further isolates the person and the outcome sometimes is very bad. In some cases it works, but you really have to know the person well.

On to the business side...

Your business partners need to determine what kind of liability this person is to accomplishment of the job broadly. Despite your Rainman like description, the fact that company resources (Even if voluntarily) are being placed on ferrying this person home for risk of life, is a major issue.

This can and will likely lead to resentment towards that person, which usually starts as a joke ("Who's taking barney home tonight" guffaw..) but in my experience turns into vitriol quickly ("I can't believe I have to help this asshole again"). In turn that will lead to trouble with team-dynamics and you can take it from there. No amount of rainman like coding can overcome everyone hating to work with you or the unpredictability of it.

If you or your partners need to issue an ultimatum to this person, that might help, but without other social support could also be isolating. This one has more eggshells on it because it's higher stakes.

If it were me I would offer this person a paid leave of absence, so they could go and be with other friends or family - or in lieu of that, find someone to augment their work and reduce their workload until they can get back on their feet, while keeping them in the office and socializing. Can your team afford that? No idea what your situation is, but if you value this person, then you'll figure out a way to do it.

Bottom line: Support, don't carry. Nudge, don't drag.

Re: Ask HN: Helping a dev who drinks?

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion is not a requirement for benefiting from AA. Participants must acknowledge a higher power, which can mean whatever a person wants that to mean.

I have observed no higher power than man. Where does that leave me?

Perhaps the inverse of acknowledging that, ultimately, man is entirely powerless would work just as well.

Re: Ask HN: Helping a dev who drinks?

#39
Basically, I'm an alcoholic. I'm in my mid 30s. I started drinking when I was told I couldn't smoke pot anymore, and kept at it after a number of friends committed suicide and a few others died of cancer.

The thing is, when I am drinking, I can manage the pain of things that will never be okay, even though I must endure them. I don't advocate alcohol, but waking up screaming every morning isn't always an option. And I get to say "basically an alcoholic" because that's a euphemism for "functional alcoholic" which is a euphemism for "alcoholic," but because I can still do my job around people in their 20s, nobody complains, so I don't have to begin the regime of psychoactive drugs that don't guarantee any less liver damage than the alcohol. I can only hope I make it to my 50s, and in my 50s, I will not give one thought to what anyone thinks, because making it to 50 means I survived remembering my dead loved ones for 30 years, and that's good enough.

It sounds like it's not an issue for your business if he's killing code three sheets to Moby Dick and you can't spare a salaried employee to walk him home. If you care for him, as my family cares for me, you will do what they do, and say, "Are you okay? I wondered because you're drinking a lot," and he might say, "No, I'll never be okay, but if it's a problem I can work on it." Or he might say, "Yeah, I'm fine," even though he's not. Point is it doesn't sound like it's a professional issue, since you haven't fired him for drinking on the job, so his ability to code is a moot point. The question is not "How do I approach a talented employee who seems superhumanly talented when he's drunk but then we have to use unpaid company resources to manage him after hours?" The question is "How do I approach someone managing pain in a potentially long-term and self-destructive way?"

And that's not an HN question.

Re: Ask HN: Helping a dev who drinks?

#40
You should stfu about him and his life. Especially if it's not a problem that is hurting someone else.

Anything you do is going to fuck him over. Don't believe someone at work (boss, HR) is going to turn his life into a disney movie of helping love and happy endings.

There are going to be mistakes that will let you know it's time to act. The first time you catch him doing a blunder that affects other people, take him aside and talk to him about it directly. Tell him you want him to enroll in some sort of treatment program.

After that, if he keeps causing negative outcomes for people, then you tell HR or the boss- which will get him fired, end of story. Don't let yourself believe some insane narrative like people are writing on here where the boss or HR will "help" him. He's just going to get fired. So, understand that before you make any moves in 'official' directions.

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