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Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

theguardian.com

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Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#271

Post by pinaceae »

rogersmith wrote: post #203
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

Then on the other hand we have: Exhibit A) Switzerland, 25 guns for 100 inhabitants, two mass shootings in the last 100 years Exhibit B) France, extremely restrictive gun laws, two mass shootings in less than one year So there's that...

misleading on Switzerland, if you served in the Amry (compulsory service) you have an assault rifle at home.

but no ammo. that one would be handed out in wartime.

but unknown how many Swiss have used their assault rifle to club someone to death.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#272

Post by yummyfajitas »

pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

Whoah, I guess I overslept Rip van Winkle style. Didn't realize it was 2030 already.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#273

Post by gremlinsinc »

rogersmith wrote: post #203
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

Then on the other hand we have: Exhibit A) Switzerland, 25 guns for 100 inhabitants, two mass shootings in the last 100 years Exhibit B) France, extremely restrictive gun laws, two mass shootings in less than one year So there's that...

Let's go beyond just gun control here.. Look at Canada gun ownership there is More per capita than the United States and gun violence is practically unheard of. -- There's something else wrong w/ this country..

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#274

Post by skewart »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #227
skewart wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree that the "curb government power" is a common argument for gun ownership in the US. However, I've never understood the logic behind it. Do people really think their handgun is going to help them resist a predator drone strike? The US military is vastly more powerful than any gun owner. Do people really think they can compete? What's more, advocates of legal gun ownership often also push for more mil…

> Do people really think their handgun is going to help them resist a predator drone strike? For a single person, or a small group? I know of no one who believes that. > The US military is vastly more powerful than any gun owner. Do people really think they can compete? The US military is composed predominately of gun owners :). > What's more, advocates of legal gun ownership often also push for more military spendin…

> For a single person, or a small group? I know of no one who believes that.

Fair enough. Neither do I. I meant it as a rhetorical question because it's such an absurd thing to think, but I realize that wasn't necessarily clear.

> The US military is composed predominately of gun owners :).

So is the thinking that people in the military would disobey commands and join the uprising? (Or are you being entirely facetious, like the smile might suggest?)

> From my perspective, this is almost pure cognitive dissonance.

Exactly. But there are presumably smart people who make this argument. There's got to some kind of reasoning behind it. Right?

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#275

Post by terrywilcox »

knz wrote: post #225
pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

Let's not forget that the UK also doesn't have brown bears, black bears, mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, and a southern border with a country that routinely has horrific murders involving decapitated bodies. Personally I can understand why SOME Americans feel the need to carry a firearm. It's highly unlikely that you would be harmed by the animals mentioned above or even be affected by the violence in Mexico, but it…

Canada has all those things...

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#276

Post by ta0967 »

valine wrote: post #85

Gun ownership is less about protecting individuals from other individuals, and more about protecting our society from governments that want to oppress it. You could make the argument that no such power exists today, but that's besides the point. Powerful, oppressive, nations have existed before and they could exist again. An armed population is our last line of defense.

tanks, jet fighters, submarines in the home of any true american patriot?

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#277

Post by ad-hominem »

alistairSH wrote: post #175
throwaway21816 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knives are expressly designed to cut. They serve no Purpose (ignoring cooking, as those are basically a proxy for proving how well one can cut with a knife). There is no reason anybody outside of the kitchen needs a knife to carry out their day to day jobs. Encryption is expressly designed to hide terrorists. It serves no purpose (ignoring privacy, as that is basically a proxy for proving how well one can hide from t…

Nice throw-away. How 'bout you man up and own your opinions?

Ad-hominem

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#278

Post by pge »

mifdsfdrfes wrote: post #115
smcl wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was sure there was a nasty bit of deception going on, I was digging through gov.uk's England/Wales crime stats PDFs looking for the explanation and it seems you've figured it out :) However if my previous chats with pro-gun types are anything to go by, please don't be surprised if there's a reply along the lines of "so if that was the cause then why don't you go ban medication..."

Washington DC has the lowest gun ownership per capita and yet the highest gun murder rates in America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_Sta... Please explain the lack of correlation between gun murders and gun ownership. Even when controlling for density, there is still no correlation.

I think DC is an anomaly because of its small size and proximity to Virginia, which has one very permissive gun sales laws. State-by-State reporting only really works when states are large enough that the populations you are studying live almost entirely within the border of such state and the actions that take place in the state are done by the same population. DC as a very small city (500K or so actual residents) is not going to be accurately captured by such a study because many of the activities that take place in DC are undertaken by residents or Maryland or Virginia. For a more mundane example than gun deaths, one could look at traffic accidents. If one took the number of traffic accidents that occur in DC and dvided by the number of DC residents, I would expect DC residents would look like bad drivers (high rate of accidents per resident), but that is a false conclusion because many of the cars on the road on any given day come in from neighboring states (I have been told that daytime population of the city is three times the number of residents, but I don't have a citation for that, so it may be wrong but is certainly directionally correct). So your denominator is wrong, you should look at traffic accidents in DC/cars on the road in DC or some similar metric.

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#279

Post by pjc50 »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #260
zeveb wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many European countries, police officers are only minimally armed (just a handgun, used only in rare circumstances). And yet when I've been in Europe I've seen plenty of police and/or paramilitary units carrying submachine guns, something I never saw here in the U.S. even after 11 September.

Curious, as I haven't been to Europe - were these at border posts? Public transit hubs? Anything else?

Yeah, transport hubs especially airports but also some railway stations will often have conspicuously armed police patrolling. And high-profile government buildings. The UK gun of choice for this is the distinctive HK MP5 submachine gun.

Conversely if you want to see the use of the AR-15 in public artwork, you should go to Northern Ireland.

In Switzerland I once saw a conscript get on a train and put his rifle in the luggage rack exactly as if it were an umbrella. But Switzerland is different (guns are mandatory, ammunition heavily controlled, the people are the "militia" and support the government, and the whole country is a mountain fortress).

Re: Toddlers Kill More People in the USA (with guns) Than Terrorists Do

#280

Post by bazzert »

pjc50 wrote: post #12

Since this is today's gun argument thread, I'll just point out that the UK is currently commemorating the 20th anniversary of its first and last "mass shooting" incident, at a school in Dunblane, Scotland. The ensuing total ban on handguns and further restriction on gun licensing mean that mass shootings are nonexistant, firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m), shooting of suspects…

>> firearm murders are extremely rare (about one per year in a country of 60m)

I think you are off by a factor of 40 ?

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-hom...

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