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Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

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Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#271

Post by saiya-jin »

viraptor wrote: post #223
plg wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me this sounds horribly unsafe. You are lulled into this state where you don't have to pay attention to steering UNLESS you have to pay attention to steering, and you will find this out suddenly. So if you always have to pay attention, even when the system is active, then what exactly is the point of the system in the first place? Wouldn't it be safer to always pay attention? I guess this is an empirical question.…

I was actually thinking that may be the case, but (anecdata warning!) after switching to a car with lane assist + adaptive cruise control (so similar to the described one I think), I can concentrate on the road ahead much more now. I didn't realise how tiring the "normal driving" is until now. The ability to stop glancing at the dashboard to check speed and not working that hard to turn (even comparing to assisted st…

unless heavy traffic on highway, this is already achievable for me with usual cruise control (I did few home trips that are 1500km far within 1 day - tiring but doable... 1 hour is a breeze in good car).

if in heavy traffic, I turn off cruise control anyway, you better focus properly.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#272

Post by saiya-jin »

Domenic_S wrote: post #260
ma2rten wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the 2016 Honda Civic LX with Sensing. It doesn't require me to keep my hands on wheel. However, it keeps losing the lane, requiring you to steer manually. Maybe the lane markings are not clear enough here in Los Angeles. Also, the adaptive cruise control often brakes abruptly, even making the front collision warning system go off. I also don't know if it activates the brake lights when it brakes (since traditi…

> (since traditional cruse controls don't) of course they do, where are you getting that?

traditional cruise control is just about keeping constant speed, no adaption to situation, road inclination etc. my 12 year old BMW has one, wonderful feature and keeps me still engaged with what's on the road

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#273

Post by plg »

ghaff wrote: post #227
plg wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me this sounds horribly unsafe. You are lulled into this state where you don't have to pay attention to steering UNLESS you have to pay attention to steering, and you will find this out suddenly. So if you always have to pay attention, even when the system is active, then what exactly is the point of the system in the first place? Wouldn't it be safer to always pay attention? I guess this is an empirical question.…

Some references here: http://hal.pratt.duke.edu/sites/hal.pratt.duke.edu/files/u7/... There are various other papers from the same lab.

awesome thanks

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#274

Post by eru »

jhulla wrote: post #259
SixSigma wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox In economics, the Jevons paradox occurs when technological progress increases the efficiency with which a resource is used but the rate of consumption of that resource rises because of increasing demand.

The only solution out of this paradox with respect to carbon fuels is taxation. Unfortunately, as much as we'd like, a global carbon tax regime is not practical, nor enforceable. So we're stuck.

Doesn't need to be global. European countries (and others) had high taxes on petrol for a while now. Extending that to a general carbon tax might be workable.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#275

Post by a_imho »

the self driving car is a concept I have a hard time appreciating. It sounds cool, and offers enormous technological and legislative obstacles to overcome, yet I can't figure out the fundamental problem they will solve - compared to the attention they get. For any use case I can imagine (minus the cool factor) we either have more efficient solutions already, or there are better alternatives to investigate. Plus I figure, most people still like to drive.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#276

Post by gr3yh47 »

naasking wrote: post #39
TrevorJ wrote: post #4

The real problem with self-driving cars is the car to human handoff. Over the long term it's incredible unlikely that humans will be any good at all at remaining aware and 'up to speed' on the current situation in the event that the car needs to give control back to the driver due to road conditions, hardware failure, or sudden situation that it cannot contend with.

> or sudden situation that it cannot contend with. The idea that humans are any better at handling situations they've not previously encountered is dubious.

Really? I would disagree whole heartedly.

This might be true in X years but right now human ability to apply existing knowledge to brand new situations far surpasses that of AI

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#278

Post by girkyturkey »

I have yet to drive a "self-driving" or even "self-monitoring" car and the thought of doing so terrifies me. I know technology is good and it can do great things, but helping me drive is something I don't enjoy the idea of. What happens if, however unlikely, someone were to hack my car? They could potentially crash my car and leave without a trace. I think we really need to take a step back and ask if the benefits outweigh the potential costs/risks.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#279

Post by mikeash »

webXL wrote: post #248
muhfuhkuh wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just another one of the pile of vitriol against electric vehicles. Day after day, whenever someone mentions Tesla or Prius Plug-ins or the Nissan Leaf or whatever, it seems to kick in a auto-response of "what is the ROI of electric vehicles? You'll have to drive a million miles to get your investment back!" (as if buying a new non-exotic car is any kind of financial instrument). They also always talk about how m…

I'm not paid and I don't want the status quo, but until we shift electricity production away from coal, there is absolutely no reason to subsidize these cars. The linked article never mentioned investment. It just highlights to utterly stupid one-size-fits-all legislation that cause automakers to produce cars they otherwise wouldn't produce. How about just raising the tax on gas if you want less gas produced???

In the US, coal power is under 40% of the total generation mix already, and dropping. My car emits less CO2 than a Prius, despite being way larger, heavier, and more powerful, and that will only get better as time goes on. It also emits zero local pollution, which is a pretty big deal.

How much longer do you want to wait? Electric is better now and just keeps improving. It takes a long time to change the makeup of the vehicle fleet (the average vehicle on US roads is over 11 years old) so if you wait until the grid is 100% squeaky clean before you start to make changes there, you'll have to wait much longer before you see benefits.

I do agree that it would be much better to just tax things to account for their externalities and let the market shake it out. But since that doesn't seem to happen much, we have to work with what we can get.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#280

Post by mikeash »

saiya-jin wrote: post #270
henrikschroder wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-end Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Lexus have had these features for years now, although they still force you to keep your hands on the wheel, presumably for liability issues. (And it's still awesome, it makes stop-and-go traffic bearable)

having to keep hands on the wheel vs not touching it at all (as vvanders wrote) shows how much trust car manufacturers have in their systems

I think that's just a matter of risk tolerance. The traditional manufacturers are taking it slow because they have a huge potential downside, and limited upside. Having the best autonomous system on the market wins some sales. Being on the receiving end of Toyota Unintended Acceleration II: Autonomous Boogaloo would be a disaster. So they're taking it easy.

Tesla is in "go big or go home" mode. They intend to grow sales by a factor of ten in five years. They have no history and are just beginning to build brand loyalty, so they want to show everyone that they're the best. That makes them much more willing to take risks.

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