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Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

wsj.com

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Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#221

Post by kazinator »

ghaff wrote: post #168
kazinator wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the competitive reality of driving in congested, urban areas. Drivers who cut in can save a lot of time over the course of a commute. They disrupt traffic flows and delay everyone else. So efficient traffic flows have to be defended. > Surely all drivers have to change lanes at some point to get where they're going; Yes, and some drivers like, for instance, to pass around 25 other cars who are making the same…

Although zipper merges are supposedly more efficient :-) http://arstechnica.com/cars/2014/07/the-beauty-of-zipper-mer...

That is completely inapplicable to drivers who are already merged into the correct section of freeway and just want to zig-zag between lanes based on what they think is faster at any moment.

If you're not one of these drivers, it benefits your trip time if you prevent their actions by not creating easy opportunities for them to slip in.

If you are one of these drivers, it benefits your trip time if you successfully carry out the zig-zagging. To that end, it behooves you not to announce your intended moves. If you do, you reduce your opportunities, because you're relying on those who enable this behavior by letting zig-zagging drivers in. In other words, not-blinking is a rational game strategy.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#222

Post by mikeash »

vvanders wrote: post #201
MBCook wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that with cars that offer 'full stop' cruise control the driver must press a button to indicate that they're ready to roll again after the car has stopped it's self (or perhaps tap the gas). Not positive, that what I remember hearing. That way it's still the driver's responsibility, but it's easy enough that it doesn't annoy the driver.

Tesla's doesn't. At least not 99% of the time(occasionally I'll get a hold message but most of the time it just resumes).

Oddly, it used to require manual intervention to resume after any stop longer than five seconds. Then they bumped it up to 30 seconds on highways. Then they (mostly) removed it.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#223

Post by viraptor »

plg wrote: post #215
ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

To me this sounds horribly unsafe. You are lulled into this state where you don't have to pay attention to steering UNLESS you have to pay attention to steering, and you will find this out suddenly. So if you always have to pay attention, even when the system is active, then what exactly is the point of the system in the first place? Wouldn't it be safer to always pay attention? I guess this is an empirical question.…

I was actually thinking that may be the case, but (anecdata warning!) after switching to a car with lane assist + adaptive cruise control (so similar to the described one I think), I can concentrate on the road ahead much more now. I didn't realise how tiring the "normal driving" is until now. The ability to stop glancing at the dashboard to check speed and not working that hard to turn (even comparing to assisted steering) is amazing.

You may think those things are in muscle memory, but actually they do tire you out. Even after a 1h drive, I'm much more relaxed than before - and that means I'm actually able to just look ahead and think about the road, not about what I'm doing.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#224

Post by superuser2 »

kazinator wrote: post #209
superuser2 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, maybe we are talking about different things. Skipping a clearly identifiable line is one thing - the driver sees that they could just get in line and decides not to. I am more interested in why you would actively avoid making space when there is no clear way to get into the lane except by finding an open space.

Because, for one thing, it's not someone's god-given right to move from a lane that is nearly standing still from one that is moving fast. "Gee whiz, I just joined this freeway, and damn it, I'm gonna edge my my way all the way to the fast moving left most lane at practically ninety degrees to the traffic flow."

If they are just changing lanes to find the one that's fastest at any moment, sure. If their destination is only reachable from that lane then yes, it is their right to use the public roadways regardless of how much it displeases you that you share them with other people.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#225

Post by kazinator »

superuser2 wrote: post #224
kazinator wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, for one thing, it's not someone's god-given right to move from a lane that is nearly standing still from one that is moving fast. "Gee whiz, I just joined this freeway, and damn it, I'm gonna edge my my way all the way to the fast moving left most lane at practically ninety degrees to the traffic flow."

If they are just changing lanes to find the one that's fastest at any moment, sure. If their destination is only reachable from that lane then yes, it is their right to use the public roadways regardless of how much it displeases you that you share them with other people.

> If their destination is only reachable from that lane then ...

If there are jerks who don't want to let anyone in front of them in a situation where you're just trying to merge in, it will not help you not to blink; my comments about not blinking as a strategy do not apply.

Still, those merge-preventing jerks are acting rationally in their self-interest. If a flow of traffic behaves in such a way that it impedes the ingress of a joining flow, then that flow does in fact reduce its trip time. (The effect on the average trip time for everyone is another matter, which they don't care about, obviously).

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#226

Post by [deleted] »

JonFish85 wrote: post #147
dsmithatx wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was stupid for this article to start talking about the $4 billion Obama has talked about for research. This article is about features and not a real self driving car. If anything the features make this car very dangerous in the hands of people concerned with their phones and tablets and kind of proves the need for investments like the $4 billion. To me it sounds like the free market is about to make the road damn…

In cases like these, if a collision occurs, who is at fault? Presumably it is the "driver", especially in this case, right? But if/when this gets into the court system, when do people start going after the "self-driving" manufacturers, who have much, much deeper pockets than your average car owner.

[deleted]

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#227

Post by ghaff »

plg wrote: post #215
ben1040 wrote: post #27

This looks like the "Sensing" feature that Honda has implemented on some of their other vehicles. I just bought a 2016 Accord that does the same thing -- there's a camera mounted on the windshield, another camera in the front grille, and a radar sensor on the front bumper. Calling it "self-driving" is kind of a misnomer and I think the article kind of blows it out of proportion. It will track the car in front of you…

To me this sounds horribly unsafe. You are lulled into this state where you don't have to pay attention to steering UNLESS you have to pay attention to steering, and you will find this out suddenly. So if you always have to pay attention, even when the system is active, then what exactly is the point of the system in the first place? Wouldn't it be safer to always pay attention? I guess this is an empirical question.…

Some references here: http://hal.pratt.duke.edu/sites/hal.pratt.duke.edu/files/u7/...

There are various other papers from the same lab.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#228

Post by henrikschroder »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #206
vvanders wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh man, all this. I thought Autopilot was nifty but it wasn't until I slogged through ~40 minutes of rush hour without touching the pedals or wheel when I realized how awesome it really was. It's useful at-speed but the killer app really is rush hour traffic.

I thought Autopilot was nifty but it wasn't until I slogged through ~40 minutes of rush hour without touching the pedals or wheel when I realized how awesome it really was. Which car can do this?

High-end Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Lexus have had these features for years now, although they still force you to keep your hands on the wheel, presumably for liability issues.

(And it's still awesome, it makes stop-and-go traffic bearable)

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#229

Post by henrikschroder »

MBCook wrote: post #192
Animats wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restarting from a full stop requires good pedestrian awareness. In city traffic, there might be people crossing in front of the car when it's stopped. Restart also requires getting the driver back on line. They're probably on a phone. That's why some driver input to start motion is desirable. The user interface problems for automatic driving are very tough.

I think that with cars that offer 'full stop' cruise control the driver must press a button to indicate that they're ready to roll again after the car has stopped it's self (or perhaps tap the gas). Not positive, that what I remember hearing. That way it's still the driver's responsibility, but it's easy enough that it doesn't annoy the driver.

Mercedes has some sort of timer, if the car's been stopped for more than maybe five seconds, I have to tap the gas to get it rolling again.

Re: Honda's $20k Civic LX now offers self-driving capability for highway use

#230

Post by Animats »

tly wrote: post #202
Animats wrote: post #60

From the article: "as long as lane markings remain visible and another vehicle is in front of the car." That's more like platooning, which was demoed two decades ago in Demo 97 [1], than self-driving. Are there more details about how this works, especially about autopilot disconnect and user takeover? Tesla's system is known to have trouble with offramps.[2] (Tesla customers are very forgiving. "It's a beta", one say…

I agreed that there needs to be a system of accountability for both the driver and manufacturer as well as proper marketing of said features. This article and the misleading title could very well cause the same damage as directly marketing the technology as a "magic all-in-one solution." Much as the companies and supporters like to see automated driving pushed through development and testing quickly, the public and p…

Yes. Here's a really bad example of feature misunderstanding, a Volvo owner demoing the self-braking, where it plows into some pedestrians.[1] "Volvo spokesman Johan Larsson told Fusion the people in the video did not pay for the car’s “pedestrian detection functionality."

The levels of self-driving may need to be standardized, so that when a driver gets into a strange car, such as a rental, they know what to expect.

[1] http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/self-braking-volvo-fai...

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