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Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

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Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#181

Post by sveiss »

rabboRubble wrote: post #87
martinald wrote: post #60

Sorry, why is this a big deal? We've completely accepted auto updates for browsers (chrme & firefox) - years ago. Obviously better, compatibility improves and security issues are easier to push out and fix. To me the browser is as important as the OS, I spend the vast majority of my time in it. Why should MSFT not do this? It's a free update. They're not charging for it. On many aspects, it's a lot better than Window…

Why is this a big deal? Why should MSFT not do this? Here are a couple of reasons why... Perhaps the machine hardware is not Win10 compliant Perhaps a machine hosts software that requires significant regression testing before permitting an upgrade to Win10 Perhaps the machine's software is not Win10 compatible and needs to be rewritten before a Win10 upgrade Perhaps the machine in question has specific greenzone peri…

The upgrade notification system does make the effort to check against known-bad hardware and software, including 3rd party software, and will warn and/or block the upgrade if it's known to be incompatible.

As for managed machines, most won't be eligible for the upgrade to begin with (domain joined, Windows 7 Enterprise), and the upgrade can be blocked entirely via Group Policy or WSUS. Any sensibly managed machine in the environments you mentioned won't be automatically upgraded.

Yes, the compatibility checks aren't perfect, and yes, making sure the update isn't rolled out to managed machines requires that they actually be managed, just like any other update Microsoft publish. But it's unfair to say they make 'no effort' to support these scenarios.

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#182

Post by edwhitesell »

deciplex wrote: post #167
edwhitesell wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've actually had the "opposite" problem. Ever since Win10 came out, my Win7 machine doesn't bother announcing when updates are available. I have to remember to install them myself ever "patch Tuesday". I also had this issue until I sat down and figured out how to make Windows Update stop forcing Windows 10 on me. Basically, you need to remove KB3035583, hide it from updates AND uncheck the box to "give me recommen…

That will work until they make KB3035583 "Important" again. Basically, the way they're going, it's only a matter of time before Win 7 & 8 basically don't work anymore.

That's why you "hide" it too. Then it won't come back. I have other "important" updates for drivers that have not returned.

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#183

Post by ac29 »

Is there any evidence this isn't just a bug? I admin several Win7 machines at work, and haven't seen this behavior on any of them. I didn't do anything to prevent automatic updates, or otherwise disable a path to Win10 (they all have the upgrade available).

I can see how someone could accidentally install Win10, since windows update has it automatically selected, but I have yet to see a machine just restart itself and start installing Win10. The machines I have upgraded to Win10 took many clicks to actually install - I can't imagine Microsoft would intentionally let users skip the EULA at the very least.

My gut says at least half the people have accidentally initiated this update and half are experiencing a bug -- my counter anecdata says this is NOT being pushed to all Win7 users with automatic updates enabled.

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#184

Post by deciplex »

edwhitesell wrote: post #182
deciplex wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will work until they make KB3035583 "Important" again. Basically, the way they're going, it's only a matter of time before Win 7 & 8 basically don't work anymore.

That's why you "hide" it too. Then it won't come back. I have other "important" updates for drivers that have not returned.

You can only hide it for as long as they don't refresh that update. Once they make a change to KB3035583 it won't be hidden anymore and, if they make it important at the same time, guess what's going to happen?

I've "hidden" KB3035583 half a dozen times in the last year (even posting here about how ridiculous this all was and being promptly flamed to ashes). It always comes back eventually.

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#185

Post by deciplex »

kefka wrote: post #180
deciplex wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will work until they make KB3035583 "Important" again. Basically, the way they're going, it's only a matter of time before Win 7 & 8 basically don't work anymore.

Eh. I just turn updates off. It solves the issue sufficiently.

Yes. Pretty much this. You do need some updates though, and Microsoft hardly does a good job of describing what each update does from WU itself, so hope you like looking up each individual update on the MS website.

Eventually they'll just start obfuscating what an update does on the website as well, if not lying outright.

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#186

Post by deadcast »

mikegioia wrote: post #171
deadcast wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha actually that is the case! I need to use Unity and the latest Linux build[1] doesn't yet have all of the features like in the latest version 5.3.3 for Windows/OSX. It's still experimental but now that I think of it... I might not need all of the features in the latest release, hmmm. Also I need Remote Desktop Connection to do some contract work. I know other non-Windows remote desktop applications exist but I'm…

Haha, sorry about that. I forgot about game dev :O

No worries! ^_^

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#187

Post by Cub3 »

zanny wrote: post #174
robertelder wrote: post #59

Re-posting my comment from the other thread which didn't get as much attention: I spent about 3 hours this week doing tech support for my mom over the phone because of Windows 10's aggressive upgrading behaviour. I told her to keep her the best way to keep safe security wise is to make sure the os/browser is up to date, and because Windows 10 keeps asking to upgrade, she went ahead and did so. After upgrading to Wind…

Just anecdotally : I have my grandmother, brother, and his mother on Kubuntu, and my mother on Lubuntu. So far, the most updates anyone has gone through is 3 (my mother went from 10.04 to 12.04 to 14.04 and soon 16.04) and we have never had an issue. Oh, and you get to chose when to do the upgrades rather than having them backdoored on you. Desktop Linux works fine for regular people. They aren't going to go digging…

Set my girlfriend up with a Chromebook for this very reason.

An "open and go" computer that fits her needs (and reduces the tech support calls to me)

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#188

Post by edwhitesell »

deciplex wrote: post #184
edwhitesell wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you "hide" it too. Then it won't come back. I have other "important" updates for drivers that have not returned.

You can only hide it for as long as they don't refresh that update. Once they make a change to KB3035583 it won't be hidden anymore and, if they make it important at the same time, guess what's going to happen? I've "hidden" KB3035583 half a dozen times in the last year (even posting here about how ridiculous this all was and being promptly flamed to ashes). It always comes back eventually.

Well, I can only say after I have hidden it some months ago, it has never came back (on multiple systems). There could be other factors at play.

I'm pretty sure even an update changed from recommended to important will stay hidden too. Though, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that can be overridden.

At least Windows Update makes it obvious when it (Windows 10 installer) returns in some form.

EDIT: clarified last line.

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#189

Post by chris_wot »

cesarb wrote: post #153
chris_wot wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. If the OS upgrades to Windows 10, does it prompt you to accept a new EULA after upgrading? If so, what does it do if you don't accept the new terms? And how can they ask you to accept terms AFTER upgrading?

The comments at https://www.reddit.com/r/windows/comments/49eahx/computer_up... say that, if you decline the EULA after installing, it rollbacks to the previously installed version.

Bloody hell. And this rollback appears to be less than reliable.

Why not ask for the acceptance and then upgrade?

Do we know what data is lost when a rollback occurs?

Re: Windows 7 computers are automatically starting the Windows 10 upgrade

#190

Post by wmccullough »

deciplex wrote: post #185
kefka wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh. I just turn updates off. It solves the issue sufficiently.

Yes. Pretty much this. You do need some updates though, and Microsoft hardly does a good job of describing what each update does from WU itself, so hope you like looking up each individual update on the MS website. Eventually they'll just start obfuscating what an update does on the website as well, if not lying outright.

If not lying outright?

There's no grand conspiracy here. Put the tinfoil hat away...

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