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Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

jonathanmh.com

251–260 of 337 posts

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This recent debate has quite literally centered on his administration using the San Bernardino shootings as leverage to force Apple to break iPhone's encryption. It's the main reason this whole discussion has the profile level it does.

He's asking to strike a balance in a court case. The tone, the actions, are so incredibly measured . Even though I disagree with them. And let's face it, iPhone encryption is weak encryption, with a single point of failure, the Apple signing key. In comparison, six weeks after 9/11 we got the entire PATRIOT act rammed through, and the current NSA domestic panopticon put into place illegally and in secret. And the adm…

> And let's face it, iPhone encryption is weak encryption, with a single point of failure, the Apple signing key.

So what? The underlying debate is whether or not the DOJ should be allowed to require phone manufacturers to guarantee they can decrypt phone data when served with a warrant.

You can rally for Apple to make a more secure phone all you want. That is a separate issue. It doesn't change the fact that the DOJ is willing to do everything it can to get access to all phones through the courts or Congress. They don't care how it happens, they just want it.

It's not about one phone, it's not even just about the phones the DOJ currently has waiting to be decrypted. It's about every phone in the world. The DOJ knows this, but they can't say that because it is part of their position to argue that this is only about one phone.

This is politics. These are lawyers. They will say anything that they think will convince a judge, Congress or the American people to win them to what they believe is the correct side. That's how our system works.

They're not conspiring to do evil. They just don't have all the facts. And even if they are conspiring to do evil, our course should be the same. We should educate each other about how encryption works, and how legislation requiring backdoors would actually make us all less safe on balance than having no backdoors at all.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#253

A key promise of Obama's campaign for the presidency was to run the “most transparent” government- however the only person to really deliver on that promise was a whistleblower. Secret courts, secret domestic spying, and now calls for weakening of the digital equivalent of the safe shows that he either was not honest about transparency, or has radically changed his opinion since becoming POTUS. Maybe it's that he dec…

> Liberty literally means "freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control"

According to who? The definition of liberty is still a matter of philosophical debate, as far as I understand it.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a debate about privacy vs. security. It's about security vs. security. [1] [2] [3] On balance, putting backdoors in phones will make us less secure, because criminals will just use other methods to communicate, and the public will be putting their data within reach of every hacker in the world through a government-imposed weakness. The administration is unlikely to understand our privacy concerns. They do…

"the public will be putting their data within reach of every hacker in the world through a government-imposed weakness" You're reusing arguments about key escrow in a way that doesn't apply. This isn't key escrow. It's about software updates, which use digital signing in the way it's supposed to be used. Apple's software updates are guarded by a private key. Of course they need to keep the private key safe, but somet…

> If keeping a private key safe is impossible even for a well-funded company like Apple, public key encryption doesn't work. Game over.

Funny, FBI Director James Comey says the same thing [1]

And, the DOJ has suggested that if Apple does create the requested tool, then they can just give the source code and key to the FBI [2]

I think we know where you stand on this issue.

[1] https://youtu.be/g1GgnbN9oNw?t=2h43m12s

[2] http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/11/fbi-could-...

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a debate about privacy vs. security. It's about security vs. security. [1] [2] [3] On balance, putting backdoors in phones will make us less secure, because criminals will just use other methods to communicate, and the public will be putting their data within reach of every hacker in the world through a government-imposed weakness. The administration is unlikely to understand our privacy concerns. They do…

"the public will be putting their data within reach of every hacker in the world through a government-imposed weakness" You're reusing arguments about key escrow in a way that doesn't apply. This isn't key escrow. It's about software updates, which use digital signing in the way it's supposed to be used. Apple's software updates are guarded by a private key. Of course they need to keep the private key safe, but somet…

> If keeping a private key safe is impossible even for a well-funded company like Apple, public key encryption doesn't work. Game over.

The fact that only Apple has to sign updates (there's no user key to sign updates as well) and the user can't change the key is an issue as well.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#256

Obama has a meta-point however that proponents of the absolutist position don't seem to want to face. Democracy relies on transparency. Many of the progressives who are rallying in support of absolute right to privacy are some of the same people who constantly criticize Swiss bank accounts, Cayman island financial shenanigans. But if companies were to implement the same sorts of impenetrable encryption, on every devi…

This as an argument is completely crazy and similarly absolutist.

Having access to proper crypto at all, as an option, does not mean everything will inevitably be encrypted and not controlled for. Companies will still have the power to set their own device rules and so on. There's plenty of existing laws in place to allow for any kind of reporting still happen; you do not need to break all crypto forever.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#257
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What people say during elections is entirely disposable. This is my hope re Trump.

And Obama is the reason to vote for Trump: Obama is a demonstration that it doesn't matter who people vote for.

Bush 43 was a striking demonstration that it does matter who you vote for.

Just because you get something worse than you wanted or expected doesn't mean that it doesn't matter.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read this so many times I am starting to think this makes sense to the people saying it: "Trump may be [insert whatever], and [policy X] is ridiculous, and [statement Y] went over the line. But [X] won't ever happen, so I don't have to worry about it." Don't get me wrong, using policy and public statements to judge fitness for public office isn't perfect, but it seems in this case we are substituting policy and…

You act like his entire life hasn't been "executing a complex and demanding job"? Running a small business is hard enough, I can't even imagine running an empire. Trump has been one step ahead of every last person this entire election cycle. It's been fascinating to watch and I'm done doubting him, underestimating him, or second-guessing why he does or says anything. Now I'm simply at the point where I'm just trying…

It doesn't have to be hard to run an empire badly.

A shell script that just repeats "Sell all assets and invest in SPY" would outperform Trump at running his empire, and it would have the side bonus of not being a crazy asshole.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#259
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policy wise Obama is close to a Rockefeller Republican. What people say during elections is entirely disposable.

I'm giving Bernie Sanders one last chance. But if he is elected and also reneges on his promises, I will probably stop caring about politics permanently. edit: Whoops! Shouldn't have revealed I'm a Bernie supporter. Forgot that HN is a libertarian paradise!

Forgot that HN is a libertarian paradise!

It's funny, some threads you'd think everyone here was at least a socialist. Then in others you'd think everyone is one step short of declaring themselves sovereign citizens.

I think the lizard people who run the site just flip a coin when each story is posted to decide which kind of comments it'll have.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obama has a meta-point however that proponents of the absolutist position don't seem to want to face. Democracy relies on transparency. Many of the progressives who are rallying in support of absolute right to privacy are some of the same people who constantly criticize Swiss bank accounts, Cayman island financial shenanigans. And there's nothing preventing law enforcement to find about these by tons of other means…

"People determined to communicate without anyone hearing, e.g. to setup their tax-haven accouts-- can do it in 2000 ways." That's pretty much the argument made against any gun regulation, because pretty much anyone who wants to commit a gun crime can find a workaround. "including checking suspected bank transactions with a warrant" Assuming one is not using cryptocurrency like bitcoin to store money and make transact…

> "including checking suspected bank transactions with a warrant"

> Assuming one is not using cryptocurrency like bitcoin to store money and make transactions.

All transactions in Bitcoin are public. It's a public ledger that is barely pseudonymous. So, it's actually even easier for law enforcement than with banks -- you don't need to pick up the phone to investigate a transaction history.

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