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Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

jonathanmh.com

171–180 of 337 posts

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely right that there are undesirable consequences to mathematically absolute privacy that can't be compromised by any means. But I'd argue that the government has brought this scenario upon itself by blowing up the old system of procedural (rather than mathematical) safeguards. In the past, Apple had your iMessage data, or at least the ability to decrypt it on-demand. It was understood that this data wo…

I'm in favor of Apple's choices, but I can see the government's side of this too, I don't think it's as cut and dried morally as people are making it. I like to mentally "game out" repercussions of various scenarios to see where they lead, and I don't think it is bad with such wide sweeping and powerful technologies, to play devils advocate and argue on both sides. A lot of people don't seem to want get into the fine…

I think with respect to business regulation, encryption won't pose much of a problem. People in criminal prosecutions have a right not to incriminate themselves. But if the government wants to investigate, say, DuPont for chemical dumping and there's a law on the books saying companies have to keep chemical storage records for 7 years, DuPont can't just throw away the key for their encrypted internal data. They'll have broken the law requiring them to keep their data and be liable to regulatory sanctions for that.

In contrast to criminal law, most regulatory schemes use a reverse onus. That is to say, the onus to prove compliance is on the regulated entity. So you can't just say, "sorry, we don't have that data / we encrypted it". That will be de facto non-compliance. So if you are encrypting internal data (which of course you should be doing, just so it isn't stolen), you had better have the means of decrypting it when the government comes knocking.

The thorny issues will be in criminal prosecutions where disclosure of the accused's (encrypted) stored data will now need the active participation of the accused, who of course can exercise their Fifth Amendment rights to refuse. And the government won't be able to go around them and get the device vendor to unlock it. But companies facing regulatory sanctions already don't have these rights.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#172
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm giving Bernie Sanders one last chance. But if he is elected and also reneges on his promises, I will probably stop caring about politics permanently. edit: Whoops! Shouldn't have revealed I'm a Bernie supporter. Forgot that HN is a libertarian paradise!

I think people put too much importance on the role of the president with regards to domestic policy. You can't expect the president to effect change if congress opposes the president 100% of the time. Electing Bernie won't make a huge difference if the republicans still control congress.

Woodrow Wilson sprang immediately to mind as an example of a president who effected change despite an intransigent congress. He is also a president who fought against entrenched interests.

Your idea seems to be more of an observation of recent presidents than a property of the presidency itself. I think there are two things that make it so. First, modern presidents are generally picked from a very narrow pool of candidates which the parties and the media help select and shape, thus making sure a relatively docile candidate is chosen. Second, most modern presidents are very politically oriented and beholden to the groups that donated to them during their campaigns.

I think that can be used to describe Hillary, but I think both Sanders and Trump are non-docile and not beholden to outside interests. Sanders, because his funds largely come as a mandate from individuals and he is very clear about who he works for. Trump, because he has nothing at all to lose by doing whatever he wants.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#173

A couple of other fun quotes: "And what we realized was that we could potentially build a SWAT team, a world-class technology office inside of the government that was helping across agencies. We’ve dubbed that the U.S. Digital Services." Yes, that's a great analogy! Go with that! "And this was a little embarrassing for me because I was the cool, early adaptor President." Cooler and adepter! https://www.bostonglobe.co…

Actually...

From his rhetoric, it sounds like he wants to appeal to technologists by arguing he keeps them very close to him in the White House. He's saying, "see? I have tech friends and I give them cool jobs where they feel appreciated."

He's also implying that they should count towards him being informed about technology. But we know that's not the case.

So he's trying to say he has trusted technology advisors, but he doesn't. It's scary. Join me in tweeting at them [1]

[1] https://twitter.com/usds

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#174
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you have information on your phone that KGB is interested in, but most people don't. You have a very narrow view of what information is sensitive. Do you know how many Americans work either directly in, or in industries associated with, defense? How many of them use Apple products as part of their work? Or let's take a more down-to-earth example: I work for a company in the health-care space. We have health rec…

If I can gain access to your customer's data by gaining access to a cell phone owned by one of your employees then you are doing something deeply, deeply wrong. You should fix that.

Who says it's only about phones?

The fact that it's an iPhone in the San Bernardino case is kind of a red herring; the precedent it would set is not "iPhones and only iPhones and not any other type of computing device are subject to law enforcement unlocking". The precedent it would set is that any encrypted system must be built to be decrypted on demand by law enforcement.

And that gets back to my original comment: a system the "good guys" can decrypt is one the "bad guys" will be able to decrypt too.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#175
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What people say during elections is entirely disposable. This is my hope re Trump.

And Obama is the reason to vote for Trump: Obama is a demonstration that it doesn't matter who people vote for.

Imagine you need to hire someone to guard a big red button. The best that can happen is nothing; but the worst that can happen is that they themselves decide to push the button.

The Executive branch effectively only has the purpose of destroying, stopping, blocking, canceling, and annulling things. The president vetos bills; stops foreign invasions with military power; commutes federal prison sentences created by the judicial branch; stops legislation from applying by signing trade agreements or granting amnesties; etc. And every department within the Executive, like the FDA or the SEC, exists solely for the purpose of blocking people from doing things.

So the President is effectively just sitting there in front of a control panel consisting entirely of big red buttons. Sometimes, rarely, situationally, it helps to press one of them. Pressing one at random, though, would almost certainly do damage and serve no purpose.

Obama's status quo was done by just avoiding pressing the big red buttons. That's bad in one way. But it's an entirely different kind of bad to start pressing lots and lots of the big red buttons. That's what George W. was actually hated for—what he did, not what he didn't do.

Trump couldn't accomplish much good, certainly. But he would have full access to a panel of big red buttons. Do you trust Trump there?

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#176
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Washington has changed Obama more than Obama changed Washington. He's spent seven years in the craziest bubble in America surrounded by people being paid millions to distort his worldview one way or another. A while back he advised some kids in College to never type anything into a computer if they want it to remain private. For him, it probably seems completely reasonable. I doubt he's touched a keyboard sin…

Let's take a moment of deep appreciation for President Obama's decision to not panic after the San Bernadino shooting, reinstate color terror alert codes, spark a ground invasion of Syria, or in any other way overreact. For a brief interlude in American history, we had a president that didn't capitalize on terror attacks politically, or generally set a tone of paranoia and fear. We won't always be this lucky.

I am happy about that.

What does any of that have to do with the fact that he does not understand encryption technology?

I can appreciate some things about Obama and not others.

People aren't all bad or good. I support ideas, not people, just as I hate the game, not the player.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#177
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Obama is the reason to vote for Trump: Obama is a demonstration that it doesn't matter who people vote for.

The good news about Trump is that he's not bought or sold. He is what he is, which from my viewpoint is better than the unknown that we currently have.

Could say the same about Bernie? Or would you disagree?

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#178

Obama has a meta-point however that proponents of the absolutist position don't seem to want to face. Democracy relies on transparency. Many of the progressives who are rallying in support of absolute right to privacy are some of the same people who constantly criticize Swiss bank accounts, Cayman island financial shenanigans. But if companies were to implement the same sorts of impenetrable encryption, on every devi…

>Obama has a meta-point however that proponents of the absolutist position don't seem to want to face. Democracy relies on transparency. Many of the progressives who are rallying in support of absolute right to privacy are some of the same people who constantly criticize Swiss bank accounts, Cayman island financial shenanigans.

And there's nothing preventing law enforcement to find about these by tons of other means, including checking suspected bank transactions with a warrant.

People determined to communicate without anyone hearing, e.g. to setup their tax-haven accouts-- can do it in 2000 ways. Mass surveillance is about all the others who casually exchange data and discussions.

>The end result of going full tilt on crypto is cryptoanarchy.

That sounds like, but is not, a thing.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#179
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually less safe. People will think their data is secure, but it won't be. The government always leaks keys. Sometimes literally. http://www.wired.com/2015/09/lockpickers-3-d-print-tsa-lugga... http://nypost.com/2015/09/20/the-8-key-that-can-open-new-yor... Plus, any key that the government can use without your permission, they can illegally abuse. And if there's one thing we've seen proven recently, it's that…

It's worth noting that in this case we're only talking about keys that are useful to someone in physical possession of a phone. So as long as I retain physical possession of my phone no one can get at it, keys or not. That's still pretty safe.

Until you lose it or it's stolen.

Re: Re: Obama on Fetishizing Our Phones

#180
post #86

A key promise of Obama's campaign for the presidency was to run the “most transparent” government- however the only person to really deliver on that promise was a whistleblower. Secret courts, secret domestic spying, and now calls for weakening of the digital equivalent of the safe shows that he either was not honest about transparency, or has radically changed his opinion since becoming POTUS. Maybe it's that he dec…

I think Washington has changed Obama more than Obama changed Washington. He's spent seven years in the craziest bubble in America surrounded by people being paid millions to distort his worldview one way or another. A while back he advised some kids in College to never type anything into a computer if they want it to remain private. For him, it probably seems completely reasonable. I doubt he's touched a keyboard sin…

> It would be an amazing insight into the corrosive influence of Washington on a person's integrity.

That's going on the assumption that he had integrity in the first place and I'm no longer immune to considering the possibility that he did not and just played the voters for all it was worth.

For instance: someone with integrity would have returned an un-deserved Nobel peace prize.

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