This is some Malcolm Gladwell-level stuff... Damn.
Can you expand on your criticism? I've heard people offhandedly criticize Gladwell's work but I've never really gotten a full explanation of why they dislike his style.
Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis
31–40 of 123 posts
Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis
#32It's a great illustration of the lack of rigor around this stuff. My college provided significant benefits to ADHD diagnosed students. Rather than take finals in stadium seating, you got a personal, air conditioned office, received unlimited time and could use reference material. A few of my friends found a "Do you need Ritalin" quizzes in a magazine, went to a doc-in-the-box and got the diagnosis. They sold the Rita…
you got a personal, air conditioned office, received unlimited time and could use reference material [...] They sold the Ritalin and got better grades As unfair as that seems to the students who took their finals in stadium seating, that's a pretty sweet hack. The system is fucked up, but I can't help but admire your friends deciding to use it to their advantage.
> a pretty sweet hack.
Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis
#33It's a great illustration of the lack of rigor around this stuff. My college provided significant benefits to ADHD diagnosed students. Rather than take finals in stadium seating, you got a personal, air conditioned office, received unlimited time and could use reference material. A few of my friends found a "Do you need Ritalin" quizzes in a magazine, went to a doc-in-the-box and got the diagnosis. They sold the Rita…
Yeah right? Lack of rigor, people like you are the people who hurt me who have it. Here's your rigor for you buddy
http://www.amazon.com/Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity-Disord...
I'm going to edit my comment with my studies copy paste that I prepare every time someone "doubts" ADHD.
http://www.filedropper.com/russellabarkley-attention-deficit...
Here's the entire epub buddy. Please edit your post, gosh.
""By adolescence, these chronic and cumulative experiences with school failure, learning disorders, school misbehavior, and sometimes lower intelligence begin to generate other adverse educational outcomes. For instance, the academic outcome of the hyperactive (ADHD) adolescents was considerably poorer in Barkley and Fischer’s Milwaukee follow-up study at the teen follow-up than that of the typically developing adolescents followed concurrently. At least three times as many hyperactive (ADHD) children had failed a grade (29.3 vs. 10.0%) or been suspended (46.3 vs. 15.2%) or expelled (10.6% vs. 1.5%) (Fischer, Barkley, Edelbrock, & Smallish, 1990). Others have also identified such high educational risks in longitudinal studies dating back as much as 40 years (Ackerman, Dykman, & Peters, 1977; Mendelson, Johnson, & Stewart, 1971; Stewart, Mendelson, & Johnson, 1973; Weiss, Minde, Werry, Douglas, & Nemeth, 1971; Wilson & Marcotte, 1996). In another sample of clinic-referred teenagers with ADHD, a similar risk for school retention and suspension was documented (Barkley, Anastopoulos, Guevremont, & Fletcher, 1991). Almost 10% of the hyperactive sample followed into adolescence had quit school at this follow-up point in the Milwaukee Study, compared to none of the normal sample (Barkley, Fischer, et al., 1990). Fischer and colleagues (1990) also found that the levels of academic achievement on standard tests were significantly below normal on tests of math, reading, and spelling, falling toward the lower end of the normal range (standard scores between 90 and 95)." (Quoted from the 4th edition)"
"Substantially fewer hyperactive than control children had ever enrolled in college (21 vs. 78%) or were currently attending at this follow-up point (15 vs. 66%). These findings were reaffirmed 6 years later at the age 27 follow-up (Barkley et al., 2008). In the Canadian follow-up study, approximately 20% attempted a college program, yet only 5% completed a university degree program, compared to over 41% of control children (Weiss & Hechtman, 1993). The longest running (30-year) follow-up study of hyperactive children into midlife likewise indicates that less education is an outcome of childhood ADHD, with 30% either not completing high school or getting a general equivalency diploma (GED), compared to just 4% of the control group (Klein et al., 2012). These findings demonstrate that the educational domain is major in terms of impaired functioning and reduced attainment for children growing up with ADHD."
Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis
#34"By adolescence, these chronic and cumulative experiences with school failure, learning disorders, school misbehavior, and sometimes lower intelligence begin to generate other adverse educational outcomes. For instance, the academic outcome of the hyperactive (ADHD) adolescents was considerably poorer in Barkley and Fischer’s Milwaukee follow-up study at the teen follow-up than that of the typically developing adolescents followed concurrently. At least three times as many hyperactive (ADHD) children had failed a grade (29.3 vs. 10.0%) or been suspended (46.3 vs. 15.2%) or expelled (10.6% vs. 1.5%) (Fischer, Barkley, Edelbrock, & Smallish, 1990). Others have also identified such high educational risks in longitudinal studies dating back as much as 40 years (Ackerman, Dykman, & Peters, 1977; Mendelson, Johnson, & Stewart, 1971; Stewart, Mendelson, & Johnson, 1973; Weiss, Minde, Werry, Douglas, & Nemeth, 1971; Wilson & Marcotte, 1996). In another sample of clinic-referred teenagers with ADHD, a similar risk for school retention and suspension was documented (Barkley, Anastopoulos, Guevremont, & Fletcher, 1991). Almost 10% of the hyperactive sample followed into adolescence had quit school at this follow-up point in the Milwaukee Study, compared to none of the normal sample (Barkley, Fischer, et al., 1990). Fischer and colleagues (1990) also found that the levels of academic achievement on standard tests were significantly below normal on tests of math, reading, and spelling, falling toward the lower end of the normal range (standard scores between 90 and 95)." (Quoted from the 4th edition)
ADHD IS real and really bad and it goes away on meds, your brain is underdeveloped 30% compared to your peers, in exec functioning. So if you're 18, you're at 12.5 on average. It's called Barkley's 30% rule.
It's serious but responds great to meds, STOP believing the anti-adhd hype.
Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis
#35I was diagnosed with ADHD as a kid in elementary school but I didn't want to take the medication (Or I may have just been being contrary...). and now as a junior in college I'm considering talking to a doctor to see whether medication might be able to help me focus. I find myself constantly unable to fin-
""By adolescence, these chronic and cumulative experiences with school failure, learning disorders, school misbehavior, and sometimes lower intelligence begin to generate other adverse educational outcomes. For instance, the academic outcome of the hyperactive (ADHD) adolescents was considerably poorer in Barkley and Fischer’s Milwaukee follow-up study at the teen follow-up than that of the typically developing adolescents followed concurrently. At least three times as many hyperactive (ADHD) children had failed a grade (29.3 vs. 10.0%) or been suspended (46.3 vs. 15.2%) or expelled (10.6% vs. 1.5%) (Fischer, Barkley, Edelbrock, & Smallish, 1990). Others have also identified such high educational risks in longitudinal studies dating back as much as 40 years (Ackerman, Dykman, & Peters, 1977; Mendelson, Johnson, & Stewart, 1971; Stewart, Mendelson, & Johnson, 1973; Weiss, Minde, Werry, Douglas, & Nemeth, 1971; Wilson & Marcotte, 1996). In another sample of clinic-referred teenagers with ADHD, a similar risk for school retention and suspension was documented (Barkley, Anastopoulos, Guevremont, & Fletcher, 1991). Almost 10% of the hyperactive sample followed into adolescence had quit school at this follow-up point in the Milwaukee Study, compared to none of the normal sample (Barkley, Fischer, et al., 1990). Fischer and colleagues (1990) also found that the levels of academic achievement on standard tests were significantly below normal on tests of math, reading, and spelling, falling toward the lower end of the normal range (standard scores between 90 and 95)." (Quoted from the 4th edition)"
"Substantially fewer hyperactive than control children had ever enrolled in college (21 vs. 78%) or were currently attending at this follow-up point (15 vs. 66%). These findings were reaffirmed 6 years later at the age 27 follow-up (Barkley et al., 2008). In the Canadian follow-up study, approximately 20% attempted a college program, yet only 5% completed a university degree program, compared to over 41% of control children (Weiss & Hechtman, 1993). The longest running (30-year) follow-up study of hyperactive children into midlife likewise indicates that less education is an outcome of childhood ADHD, with 30% either not completing high school or getting a general equivalency diploma (GED), compared to just 4% of the control group (Klein et al., 2012). These findings demonstrate that the educational domain is major in terms of impaired functioning and reduced attainment for children growing up with ADHD."
You get remission of symtoms very frequently if you take your meds, it works great. there's no way you can "overcome" it as you're a) time myopic (look it up) b) cannot execute knowledge you have acquired.
Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis
#36> The youngest students were between 20 percent and 100 percent more likely to get the diagnosis or ADHD medication than were the oldest students in the cohort, says Helga Zoëga, an epidemiologist at the University of Iceland who worked on the Icelandic and Israeli studies. > "Within that age range there is a huge difference in developmental and social and emotional maturity," says Dr. Adiaha Spinks-Franklin, a devel…
ADHD is a developmental disorder, they're 30% behind their peers anyways in exec functioning(front part of brain) in development, it's called "Barkley's 30% rule" It's very severe and bad but goes away if you just take your meds.
So if you're 18, you're when people were at 12.5 in your ability to perceive time/planning. It's worse than having low intelligence, EF deficits.
""By adolescence, these chronic and cumulative experiences with school failure, learning disorders, school misbehavior, and sometimes lower intelligence begin to generate other adverse educational outcomes. For instance, the academic outcome of the hyperactive (ADHD) adolescents was considerably poorer in Barkley and Fischer’s Milwaukee follow-up study at the teen follow-up than that of the typically developing adolescents followed concurrently. At least three times as many hyperactive (ADHD) children had failed a grade (29.3 vs. 10.0%) or been suspended (46.3 vs. 15.2%) or expelled (10.6% vs. 1.5%) (Fischer, Barkley, Edelbrock, & Smallish, 1990). Others have also identified such high educational risks in longitudinal studies dating back as much as 40 years (Ackerman, Dykman, & Peters, 1977; Mendelson, Johnson, & Stewart, 1971; Stewart, Mendelson, & Johnson, 1973; Weiss, Minde, Werry, Douglas, & Nemeth, 1971; Wilson & Marcotte, 1996). In another sample of clinic-referred teenagers with ADHD, a similar risk for school retention and suspension was documented (Barkley, Anastopoulos, Guevremont, & Fletcher, 1991). Almost 10% of the hyperactive sample followed into adolescence had quit school at this follow-up point in the Milwaukee Study, compared to none of the normal sample (Barkley, Fischer, et al., 1990). Fischer and colleagues (1990) also found that the levels of academic achievement on standard tests were significantly below normal on tests of math, reading, and spelling, falling toward the lower end of the normal range (standard scores between 90 and 95)." (Quoted from the 4th edition)"
"Substantially fewer hyperactive than control children had ever enrolled in college (21 vs. 78%) or were currently attending at this follow-up point (15 vs. 66%). These findings were reaffirmed 6 years later at the age 27 follow-up (Barkley et al., 2008). In the Canadian follow-up study, approximately 20% attempted a college program, yet only 5% completed a university degree program, compared to over 41% of control children (Weiss & Hechtman, 1993). The longest running (30-year) follow-up study of hyperactive children into midlife likewise indicates that less education is an outcome of childhood ADHD, with 30% either not completing high school or getting a general equivalency diploma (GED), compared to just 4% of the control group (Klein et al., 2012). These findings demonstrate that the educational domain is major in terms of impaired functioning and reduced attainment for children growing up with ADHD." (quoted from the 4th edition handbook) linked below
http://www.filedropper.com/russellabarkley-attention-deficit...
http://www.amazon.com/Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity-Disord...
Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis
#37This is some Malcolm Gladwell-level stuff... Damn.
Can you expand on your criticism? I've heard people offhandedly criticize Gladwell's work but I've never really gotten a full explanation of why they dislike his style.
I can't, because my neurons misfired. I was thinking freakonomics :)
Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis
#38This article fails to admit the possibility of mistaken non-diagnosis caused by the same phenomenon. It would be interesting to see the relationship between being old for grade and late (eg adult) diagnosis of ADHD.
What? Yes, it does mention this.
"But perhaps older, more mature-looking students are just being underdiagnosed and not get help they might need, he says. The studies didn't look into that."
Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis
#39Is there anywhere that divides up their younger grade classes into who is born in the first half of the educational year and who is born in the second half? That could help somewhat although the teacher of the second half kids probably is going to have a tough time.
England has very recently allowed summer born children to defer. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/08/parents-of-... It's a bit confusing.
In the US this practice is known as redshirting.
Re: Youngest Kids in Class at Higher Risk of ADHD Diagnosis
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
You say strict but don't you really just mean threatening children with violence? The last time someone told me to stand still so they could hit me as hard as they could with a cane was when I was 7 or 8 years old. That's not education. Real educators, much like real democracy, do not rely on fear and violence to control others.
I definitely understand why using fear to control children is a bad thing, but as for violence, it's at the root of all power anyway. Whenever you impose a disciplinary sanction, it's implicit that if the sanction is not respected, it will be replaced by an alternative, at least as harsh sanction, and eventually the alternative sanction will be violent. Fear is clearly not a great way of controlling your children, bu…
> Whenever you impose a disciplinary sanction, it's implicit that if the sanction is not respected, it will be replaced by an alternative, at least as harsh sanction, and eventually the alternative sanction will be violent.
Jesus fucking christ no it isn't. Your boss doesn't punch you for not filing your TPS reports; your spouse doesn't hit you for not doing the shopping.
Don't hit children. Learn how to parent.
The rest of your post shows a mind-boggling lack of knowledge of parenting methods. (EG: Time outs are not long - one minute per year of age. A 12 year old gets a 12 minute time out.)