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Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

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Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#231

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

Filligree wrote: post #212
tux1968 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that's possible. However Demis Hassabis has said many people have noted that AlphaGo makes human-like moves. He commented that it made sense since AlphaGo taught itself from the games of human players.

It could also be that human-looking moves are already close to the best possible. Neither AlphaGo nor human players can play god's hand, but they're approaching the same location.

Is Go-Space understood well enough to know either way?

The OMG-AI people claim that AGI would be dangerous because it would reliably innovate in new spaces and out-predict humans.

So a true super-AGI would make go moves that were unexpected and incomprehensible with some percentage of misleading fake-outs, but it would still win most or all of the time.

If the human exploration of Go-Space is close to the god's hand bounds, this can't be true.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#232

Post by Tempest1981 »

zouhair wrote: post #196
mikeyouse wrote: post #11

Relevant tweets from Demis; Lee Sedol is playing brilliantly! #AlphaGo thought it was doing well, but got confused on move 87. We are in trouble now... Mistake was on move 79, but #AlphaGo only came to that realisation on around move 87 When I say 'thought' and 'realisation' I just mean the output of #AlphaGo value net. It was around 70% at move 79 and then dived on move 87 Lee Sedol wins game 4!!! Congratulations! H…

How frigging smart Sedol is?

Kind of cool to know you're as smart as algorithms that require 1920 CPUs and 280 GPUs

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#233

Post by choosername »

sheepdestroyer wrote: post #207
denim_chicken wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels really weird to see someone being showered with congratulations for beating a computer program. What exactly is he being congratulated for? For probably triggering and then capitalizing on a bug in AlphaGo's AI? For showing that human resolve, perseverance and a "fighting spirit" can trump a flawed AI, at least until the AI gets fixed? For giving DeepMind extremely valuable test data that will only accelerat…

As noted by the live commentator, this has the opportunity to be the third revolution of the game of Go, opening again new ways of playing for the whole of humanity. Imagine what AI, in different fields, means for humanity if it has so much to teach us, just by being able to "think" differently. I sure hope that one day they start writing philosophy and, doing so, potentially legitimize everything that currently make…

a computer that loves wisdom?

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#234

Post by dave2000 »

imron wrote: post #197
jacquesm wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same happens to people, especially people that study theory. You can totally throw them off their game by making a non-standard move, even a relatively bad one as long as it breaks their existing pre-conceived notions about how the game should progress. Of course against a really strong player you're going to get beaten after that but a weak player strong on theory will have a harder time.

That's what Gary Kasparov attributes as one of the reasons he lost to deep blue.

Well also that the machine could study his style of play, whereas he was playing a stranger; one whose style changed during each game thanks to humans hand altering the logic. Not really fair. At least, different to how humans play chess.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#235

Post by andrepd »

toolslive wrote: post #205
zsiciarz wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By NN you mean a neural network, of course? That makes even more sense...

NN = nomen nescio ("I don't know the name") You use it when you cannot name the source of a quote, or when you would like to protect the source. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomen_nescio

Wouldn't "-Unknown" convey the same sense without the possible confusion?

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#236

Post by hatsunearu »

fhe wrote: post #166

My friends and I (many of us are enthusiastic Go lovers/players) have been following all of the games closely. AlphaGo's mid game today was really strange. Many experts have praised Lee's move 78 as a "divine-inspired" move. While it was a complex setup, in terms of number of searches I can't see it be any more complex than the games before. Indeed because it was a very much a local fight, the number of possible move…

>"divine-inspired" move

Just letting others know, this expression is a rather common way of saying a single move that changed the course of the game. There were "divine-inspired moves" that AlphaGo made in the first three games too.

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#237

Post by Tempest1981 »

Bud wrote: post #216
mizzao wrote: post #194

Another way to look at this is just how efficient the human brain is for the same amount of computation. On one hand, we have racks of servers (1920 CPUs and 280 GPUs) [1] using megawatts (gigawatts?) of power, and on the other hand we have a person eating food and using about 100W of power (when physically at rest), of which about 20W is used by the brain. [1] http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/216…

Definitely not anything close to gigawatts: ALL of Google (not DeepMind, but the entire company) uses only about 260 megawatts. Probably on the order of one megawatt or so. http://inhabitat.com/infographic-how-much-energy-does-google...

Still, wow! And a human is using 100W or so: (~400 max) https://sustainability.blogs.brynmawr.edu/2012/07/31/underst...

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#238

Post by [deleted] »

Bud wrote: post #216
mizzao wrote: post #194

Another way to look at this is just how efficient the human brain is for the same amount of computation. On one hand, we have racks of servers (1920 CPUs and 280 GPUs) [1] using megawatts (gigawatts?) of power, and on the other hand we have a person eating food and using about 100W of power (when physically at rest), of which about 20W is used by the brain. [1] http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/216…

Definitely not anything close to gigawatts: ALL of Google (not DeepMind, but the entire company) uses only about 260 megawatts. Probably on the order of one megawatt or so. http://inhabitat.com/infographic-how-much-energy-does-google...

[deleted]

Re: Lee Sedol Beats AlphaGo in Game 4

#240

Post by esun »

Bud wrote: post #211
denim_chicken wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels really weird to see someone being showered with congratulations for beating a computer program. What exactly is he being congratulated for? For probably triggering and then capitalizing on a bug in AlphaGo's AI? For showing that human resolve, perseverance and a "fighting spirit" can trump a flawed AI, at least until the AI gets fixed? For giving DeepMind extremely valuable test data that will only accelerat…

Perhaps you'd like a shot at explaining why AI is an "amoral field of study", and why it could "delegitimize everything that currently makes humans unique and extraordinary"? Dolphins are about as intelligent as us, too. Are dolphins amoral? Do they delegitimize Beethoven, Tesla, Gödel, Einstein, and da Vinci?

Not really related, but dolphins are assholes!

http://www.deepseanews.com/2013/02/10-reasons-why-dolphins-a...

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