Live data from Hacker News

I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

mjg59.dreamwidth.org

191–200 of 325 posts

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does Tesla implement updates? Tesla has a pretty vested interest in shit keeping working considering it's a pretty luxurious and high-profile product. The cut-price manufacturer of your $20 lightbulb or $300 fridge? Not so much.

The cheapest Chromebooks ship at $149 and have a pretty much unbrickable automated update flow that includes the firmware for the CPU and embedded controller(s). It's not a matter of luxury, it's a matter of having people work on it who care. Disclosure: I work with them. Much <3 :)

Except when you're abroad on roaming cellular charges, and your three laptops decided that since your iPhone's personal hotspot is WiFi, it's time to download today's ChromeOS image version, because the one you had downloaded the night before was not good enough anymore.

Source: Chromebooks are awesome, and even with excesses like this, they're still the cheapest to operate by far.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#192

And here I thought the video game Gunpoint (where you rewire switches, lights and doors among other things) was unrealistic. Although I'm a bit disappointed mjg59 didn't play Blinkenlights with the rooms on his floor.

I was thinking the same thing :)

For those unfamiliar: http://blinkenlights.net/

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#193
When I stayed there, it was just as soul destroying to use these things as you might imagine.

The implementation felt like they'd asked a VB6 dabbler to implement it in Java. Then stuck it in the cheapest 600mhz tablet they could find.

The UI was purely a button grid with distorted graphics, and dodgy typography. Button presses took about 1/2 a second to respond, and every 5th press caused the app to crash (adding a good 30 s to the experience).

My room had 4 tablets* in, and all of them behaved exactly the same way.

* the idea of a tablet to control the room is neat if it could be moved around. Like a remote-control. But for security (and using Ethernet) they were all fixed down. Making them far more useless than plain switches

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#194
A lot of consumer IoT feels forced. It feels like I am supposed to want these things. What am I? A luddite? It's The Future(tm)! Of course I should want a less reliable, more expensive, shorter life span, more complex security/privacy nightmare in place of a completely reliable long-lived inexpensive device.

Complexity is costly in many, many ways. There is zero justification for adding it to anything unless the payoff is some multiple of the complexity cost being added. I just don't see it here.

For any new tech, I always ask "what super power will this give me?" For much of IoT I can't answer that question. There are a few nice-to-haves but nothing compelling, no must-haves or genuine wows. Then you add in all the unbelievably creepy security and privacy implications and any lukewarm interest goes away. I can't shake the obviously crazy idea that some of this stuff is being pushed because certain people (advertisers, intelligence agencies) want as many sensors out there watching us as possible. Imagine every light switch, thermostat, etc. with an Internet connection and then think about the meta-data correlation capabilities with mobile sensor and location data and other Internet traffic.

We're really talking about a total surveillance society where literally every single thing you do is stored in a database somewhere. Anyone able to correlate your phone's approximate location and/or your web browsing history with, say, light switch data really will know every single time you use the bathroom and for exactly how long.

Do you stop moving and kneel every day at the correct time? Then you're praying to Mecca-- you're a Muslim. Do you leave the lights on late? That might say something about your personality profile. Do you work with the lights off? That says something else. Is there ambient sound but no light and are a male and a female present? They might be having sex. Two men in the bedroom? Gay sex! And that's just the easy low-hanging fruit I can imagine. Throw some theory-agnostic deep learning at it and I can imagine unbelievably spooky stuff that makes this look tame:

http://nypost.com/2013/10/29/facebook-knows-when-youre-going...

Edit:

But mostly I think the driver is tech industry wishful thinking. Everyone is looking for the next catapult capable of tossing unicorns to billion dollar valuations in 1-2 years.

Mobile has IMHO been a bit of a disappointment. It's been big but not quite as big as everyone predicted. It's failed to displace desktop or achieve "convergence," and the limitations of the UI and the walled garden model have kept "serious" apps off mobile platforms for the most part. The collapse of app stores as a commercial software sales platform with prices spiraling down to $0 and clutter making new apps un-discoverable has further destroyed any incentive to push the boundaries of the platform beyond a "portable dumb terminal."

It's also been an architectural disappointment. It was supposed to be a clean slate where we could escape some of the cruft and bloat of desktop, but we're doing iOS and Android around here and the development experience on both is as bad or worse than Windows, Linux/Qt/GTK, and the web. It's not the promised land by any stretch. We took a lot of bad ideas with us from desktop and then added walled gardens and more resource constraints. Woohoo!

So now everyone's hoping IoT will be the next unicorn flinger. I'm skeptical so far. The Blackberry and the iPhone had immediate killer apps: maps, portable chat/email, portable books, music, and movies, etc. Those are real benefits that are worth the cost and the downsides. They're "super powers." Where's the super power in an internet connected light switch?

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My nest had a bad firmware update and my heat turned on to 99 degrees. Good thing I was home....

Your nest is not built in this way... This is exactly the sentiment i was talking about though. If you buy a car that had a faulty AC unit, do you just swear off cars altogether because "they all have shitty AC"? Why do so many people like to bring up bugs/issues with poor iot devices and act like it is something that can't be improved or fixed?

If nearly all cars available had a faulty breaking system, would you swear off cars altogether or would you keep looking for one with it fixed?

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the capability of the devices on both side ... Your're not wrong, but the other point is they are swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. What wrong with a simple light switch for gods sake. Why would a hotel spend hundreds of dollars to do what a $2 device can do more reliably and securely?

There might be significant cost savings in the ability to power off a room remotely instead of having to send someone over when a guest checks out. I would be more worried about the tv, the faucets and air conditioning, though. Also, some hotels manage to have the tv showing a welcome message when you enter.

Sure. I work in a large university building and can power up/down various systems from my desk for the same reason. But it doesn't require a full tablet computer in each room. These are simple network addressable devices on their own VLAN that allow me to (for example) create an interface that sends a string of commands like a remote control, provided I give proper auth. If you're a regular person in any of the rooms in the building, you can't easily gain access to the VLAN, much less connect to any of the networked controllers in the rooms.

As a result, I can shut things down from my office or set up schedules to do the same. I can monitor usage and save resources (lamp hours on projectors and lighting, etc)

The idea of using a full-on tablet computer is just silly and sounds more like something I'd do while tinkering at home and was looking for a use for some old phone or tablet sitting in a drawer. It's not something I'd put in any enterprise or commercial space.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the capability of the devices on both side ... Your're not wrong, but the other point is they are swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. What wrong with a simple light switch for gods sake. Why would a hotel spend hundreds of dollars to do what a $2 device can do more reliably and securely?

There might be significant cost savings in the ability to power off a room remotely instead of having to send someone over when a guest checks out. I would be more worried about the tv, the faucets and air conditioning, though. Also, some hotels manage to have the tv showing a welcome message when you enter.

I've been in many hotels that required the key card to enable power to the room. Some hotels used a simple switch activated by presence of an object in the slot. Many could detect if the NFC tag key was present, but not read the value. Only a few I have seen actually verified that the key was the right key.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#198
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I'll tag along. Problem is in a few years you may not have a choice because all fridges will be Internet-enabled by default. It's already happening with TVs where 70% of new sets are smart TVs. And you know, personally I don't mind because if it bothers me too much I'd just make sure that the damn thing never gets online access but I doubt the average consumer could go in such lengths. So instead of moaning and…

> if it bothers me too much I'd just make sure that the damn thing never gets online access Which might be quite a challenge with some devices when your neighbors drown you in free WiFi.

How about a market for custom made Faraday cages? :)

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#199
> My coworker asks whether you can control the channels. Can you set all of your neighbours' TVs to pay-per-view while they're out?

Hahahahahahah! "Asking for a friend."

But really, folks are talking about the nuisance of waking people up in the middle of the night and that's true. However, controlling channels could be a more significant nuisance.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#200
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be significant cost savings in the ability to power off a room remotely instead of having to send someone over when a guest checks out. I would be more worried about the tv, the faucets and air conditioning, though. Also, some hotels manage to have the tv showing a welcome message when you enter.

I've been in many hotels that required the key card to enable power to the room. Some hotels used a simple switch activated by presence of an object in the slot. Many could detect if the NFC tag key was present, but not read the value. Only a few I have seen actually verified that the key was the right key.

I've seen those too. They're quite inconvenient because they actively prevent you from charging your phone or laptop while out of the room. They should leave some marked outlets enabled but usually they only do so for the mini-fridge. And of course "fancy" places build that into a cabinet.
Post reply on HN