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I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

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Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#131

Post by brianwawok »

Klathmon wrote: post #97
corobo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great my fridge just rebooted for a firmware update and bricked itself now the peas are rapidly defrosting and I am in a panic. Edit: Shoutout to Internet of Shit https://twitter.com/internetofshit

There are way to build things so that this isn't a problem. Modularize. It's easy to build it in a way so that the worst that the software can do is cause it to turn into a "dumb" fridge. My problem with this whole hatred of iot is that it's not productive. it's a bunch of people commenting how the trend is dumb and how everything was so much better in the past. Nobody ever gives suggestions on how to improve it, or…

My nest had a bad firmware update and my heat turned on to 99 degrees. Good thing I was home....

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#132

Post by goodcanadian »

watty wrote: post #98
goodcanadian wrote: post #74

This is why I don't understand the "Internet of Things." A light switch is a pretty effective solution to the problem; there seems little advantage to networking it. Ditto for a toaster, refrigerator, et cetera, et cetera. Now get off my lawn!

This is not "Internet of Things", this is "Building Automation" and it's been the norm for decades.

Depends what you mean by "Building Automation." If you mean things like a thermostat to control my heating, sure that has been around for decades. However, it can be a very simple mechanical device. Even for the computerized ones, I see little advantage to networking it (at least compared to the disadvantages).

If, however, by "Building Automation," you mean networked computers controlling your lights and every other aspect of your environment, this is not the norm now, never has been, and I would hazard a guess that it won't be any time soon because the cost and complexity is not worth the marginal advantages. Yes, some elements are creeping in: particularly systems to shut off lighting and environment control in office buildings at night because the power savings are worth it, but those systems are relatively simple and closed. There is no need to connect them to the sort of network that is featured in the article let alone the internet at large.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#134

Post by Klathmon »

brianwawok wrote: post #131
Klathmon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are way to build things so that this isn't a problem. Modularize. It's easy to build it in a way so that the worst that the software can do is cause it to turn into a "dumb" fridge. My problem with this whole hatred of iot is that it's not productive. it's a bunch of people commenting how the trend is dumb and how everything was so much better in the past. Nobody ever gives suggestions on how to improve it, or…

My nest had a bad firmware update and my heat turned on to 99 degrees. Good thing I was home....

Your nest is not built in this way...

This is exactly the sentiment i was talking about though.

If you buy a car that had a faulty AC unit, do you just swear off cars altogether because "they all have shitty AC"?

Why do so many people like to bring up bugs/issues with poor iot devices and act like it is something that can't be improved or fixed?

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#135

Post by wpietri »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #84

I don't see what this gains the hotel. You get an increase in complaints/request about not being able to turn on/off lights, etc. Standard light switches are dirt cheap and last years and everyone from age 2 up knows how to use them. Is this solely to look "fancy"? If so, then at least get the tech right otherwise you look incompetent.

Hotels are under substantial competitive pressure to seem fancy. Fancy hotels can charge a lot more. Looking good is often more important than ease of use, as is demonstrated by every hotel alarm clock I've ever tried to set.

It's also partly our fault. Computer-y stuff has had poor usability for years. A standard tech response to bad user experience has been to tell people that they're doing it wrong, that they just need to learn a particular trick and it will all be great. So people often assume that when something is hard to use, it's probably their fault. Which means that a buyer of stuff like this can have a bad experience and wave it away thinking that the tech is just fine. After all, why would somebody sell a computer-controlled lighting system that is in practice worse in every way than regular switches?

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#136

Post by elorant »

corobo wrote: post #95
jon-wood wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you connected fridge can brick itself in such a way that it stops refrigerating things then it wasn't worth buying in the first place, especially for things like this where you could end up accidentally poisoning someone the failsafe in case of software failure should be switching to an old school circuit that just keeps things at a fixed temperature.

> wasn't worth buying in the first place Hence my shoutout to IoS! :)

Sure, I'll tag along. Problem is in a few years you may not have a choice because all fridges will be Internet-enabled by default. It's already happening with TVs where 70% of new sets are smart TVs. And you know, personally I don't mind because if it bothers me too much I'd just make sure that the damn thing never gets online access but I doubt the average consumer could go in such lengths. So instead of moaning and bitching about it perhaps we, as a community, ought to think about ways to solve security issues. Otherwise the industry will just go ahead and build them no matter what.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#137

Post by Klathmon »

robotmlg wrote: post #130
Klathmon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are way to build things so that this isn't a problem. Modularize. It's easy to build it in a way so that the worst that the software can do is cause it to turn into a "dumb" fridge. My problem with this whole hatred of iot is that it's not productive. it's a bunch of people commenting how the trend is dumb and how everything was so much better in the past. Nobody ever gives suggestions on how to improve it, or…

> It's easy to build it in a way so that the worst that the software can do is cause it to turn into a "dumb" fridge. If it's so easy, why don't more companies do it? Why didn't Nest build their thermostats so that when the battery runs out, it reverts to a "dumb" thermostat instead of turning off your heat? http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/15/bug-nest-t...

Honestly, i'm not sure.

It's clearly more work to do it that way, as you'd need multiple "layers" of firmware/code which all need to communicate and run on their own, but i personally see that as insurance against the exact situation you are describing.

Nest is far from what i'd consider a good IOT company. They are the epitome of vendor lock in, proprietary and buggy code, and shitty support.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#138

Post by watty »

goodcanadian wrote: post #132
watty wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not "Internet of Things", this is "Building Automation" and it's been the norm for decades.

Depends what you mean by "Building Automation." If you mean things like a thermostat to control my heating, sure that has been around for decades. However, it can be a very simple mechanical device. Even for the computerized ones, I see little advantage to networking it (at least compared to the disadvantages). If, however, by "Building Automation," you mean networked computers controlling your lights and every other…

Lighting systems are very common in the building automation industry but they're typically connected to physical switches. Placing a computer or tablet there doesn't really change things - this could have been hacked regardless of the end-user input. The core protocol Modbus/TCP has been available and easily hackable for decades.

Building Automation is exactly what your describing and it is the norm. It's common for schools, hotels, and commercial buildings to be "smart", with something like Modbus or BACnet connecting lighting, HVAC equipment, smart meters.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#140

Post by paulddraper »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #111
watty wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean he did unplug network equipment and MiTM, if this isn't illegal it probably should be. I see ethernet cables all the time in things like hospitals and hotels, should anyone be able to simply unplug them and put their laptops in the middle?

Yes, anybody should be able to do that with no legal consequences. If you don't want to give people access to your network, don't provide them with a fucking port and cable explicitly designed for doing so.

"You stole my TV!"

"If you don't want to give people access to your house don't provide them with a f*ing door explicitly designed for doing so."

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