Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

mjg59.dreamwidth.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 325 posts

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#151

Post by reitanqild »

amelius wrote: post #63
dcexqm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under pressure in an interview, yesterday, I found myself saying "'The Internet of Things' is short for 'The Internet of Things you don't need, sending surveillance data you don't want, to people you don't know.'"

> to people you don't know What is worse, your data being sent to people you know or to people you don't know ?

I argue to people that I'd rather have my photos on Googles servers than on the friendly local Dropbox clone.

Why? Because I know Google has systems in place to detect sysadmins browsing in data unrelated to their job and I know they have fired people over it even if was tought to have been done with good intentions.

Edit: as for tracking I wish they would up their game and stop providing ads for -dating.

I wish they would take into consideration that I am happily married with more than 3kids, belongs to a subset of the population that has way less than 10% divorce rate and I might even be in the market for a new car at some point.

In fact I would even tell them if they asked.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#152

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #145
Klathmon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are way to build things so that this isn't a problem. Modularize. It's easy to build it in a way so that the worst that the software can do is cause it to turn into a "dumb" fridge. My problem with this whole hatred of iot is that it's not productive. it's a bunch of people commenting how the trend is dumb and how everything was so much better in the past. Nobody ever gives suggestions on how to improve it, or…

I think if people actually wanted the products, they'd be more likely to offer constructive solutions.

[deleted]

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#153

Post by mikeash »

Klathmon wrote: post #134
brianwawok wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My nest had a bad firmware update and my heat turned on to 99 degrees. Good thing I was home....

Your nest is not built in this way... This is exactly the sentiment i was talking about though. If you buy a car that had a faulty AC unit, do you just swear off cars altogether because "they all have shitty AC"? Why do so many people like to bring up bugs/issues with poor iot devices and act like it is something that can't be improved or fixed?

I think it's because it's so prevalent. If your car had a faulty AC unit, you wouldn't swear off all cars, because most cars don't have that problem. But I feel like we're all still waiting for an Internet of Things Thing to show up that's actually done right. And it's been long enough that if nobody has done it right so far, it seems like a distinct possibility that nobody ever will.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#154

Post by mturmon »

Kenji wrote: post #42

People forget how reliable and secure things like hard-wired physical light switches and other natural interfaces (like paper books, etc.) are. There seems to be a vast ignorance about topics like reliability, interfaces, usability and design. Just because it's digital, it doesn't mean it's better - I'd argue for the contrary in many cases. I don't want to upgrade the firmware of lightbulbs, I just don't. Despite my…

Everything you said, and also that the old analog devices are future proof.

For a trendy metropolitan hotel, with a design refresh cycle of 10 years at the most, the future might not matter. But people are wanting to put these devices in homes with a refresh cycle that should be more like 30 to 50 years. Big difference.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#155

Post by CaptSpify »

paulddraper wrote: post #140
matthewmacleod wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, anybody should be able to do that with no legal consequences. If you don't want to give people access to your network, don't provide them with a fucking port and cable explicitly designed for doing so.

"You stole my TV!" "If you don't want to give people access to your house don't provide them with a f *ing door explicitly designed for doing so."

I feel like there's a significant difference between a locked-door, and an unsecured cable/port

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#156

Post by paulddraper »

CaptSpify wrote: post #155
paulddraper wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You stole my TV!" "If you don't want to give people access to your house don't provide them with a f *ing door explicitly designed for doing so."

I feel like there's a significant difference between a locked-door, and an unsecured cable/port

But what if you leave your door unlocked, or it isn't locked in a secure enough way?

Who is the guilty party?

Really, this is just social/legal understanding. It's unacceptable to open someone's door -- even if unlocked -- but acceptable (?) to wire yourself into someone's network if unguarded.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#158

Post by DasIch »

chippy wrote: post #35
gberger wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the GPS

Except they a) know where the room is anyhow and b) GPS doesn't tend to work very well indoors

Depends on how targeted the attack is. A hacker who is bored and is searching Shodan for what entertainment the IoT is offering might find GPS quite useful.

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#159

Post by ethbro »

thoughtsimple wrote: post #77
joezydeco wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the hotel's HVAC is running Modbus?

Could be. I just spent some time on the modbus.org site. I haven't looked in a while. There is pretty much no mention of security though they claim that Modbus over TCP is an internet protocol.

Maybe embedded network is the new javascript ecosystem: rediscovering novel ideas (like authentication!) that were invented 50 years ago.

/deploying CAN bus without security

Re: I stayed in a hotel with Android lightswitches and it was as bad as you'd think

#160

Post by goodcanadian »

watty wrote: post #138
goodcanadian wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what you mean by "Building Automation." If you mean things like a thermostat to control my heating, sure that has been around for decades. However, it can be a very simple mechanical device. Even for the computerized ones, I see little advantage to networking it (at least compared to the disadvantages). If, however, by "Building Automation," you mean networked computers controlling your lights and every other…

Lighting systems are very common in the building automation industry but they're typically connected to physical switches. Placing a computer or tablet there doesn't really change things - this could have been hacked regardless of the end-user input. The core protocol Modbus/TCP has been available and easily hackable for decades. Building Automation is exactly what your describing and it is the norm. It's common for…

I will defer to you re: Modbus/TCP as it is outside my area of expertise. Even if these systems are "common," I would still claim that they are not the "norm" for the simple reason that I have been in buildings that were clearly "smart" buildings and ones that were clearly not, and the latter outnumber the former. However, even if it were the norm for commercial buildings, I was thinking far more generally and that may be the source of our disagreement. Automatic doors, for example, are the norm for major retail stores (as well as airports, et cetera), but they just don't exist in private homes. It would be expensive and serve no purpose, and that is how I feel about most "Internet of Things" devices [EDIT: and most "home automation" devices].
Post reply on HN