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America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

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Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It doesn't, by any measure, appear to be a consequence of the children's efforts. What basis do you have for saying that?

The best ranked public schools are consistently in the richest neighborhoods, and the worst ranked ones are consistently in the poorest neighborhoods. I don't think this can be disputed. So, what's more likely? 1. Rich neighborhoods result in well-funded schools with the resources to provide a superior education, better than the not-well-funded schools that are in poor neighborhoods. Or 2. A superior education comes…

It has more to do with parent involvement and support, and after that, community support. If the family does not value education, then the likely kids wont. Poverty in and of itself plays a role. Poorer families have other stressors that distract from school, and poorer families tend to not know the benefit of education (they may have been told education is a ticket out of poverty, but few see it happen). And it spreads out of the home. In poverty stricken areas, the majority of peers will shun those who are academically excellent as some kind of sell out. There have been successful schools in poor areas like Harlem when the majority of parents and students care about their education. On the flip side, excellent schools pull in families that value school performance and those families support and push the students. Annecdata: I grew up very poor and made it well into the middle class, it can be done, but the cards are stacked against you.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It doesn't, by any measure, appear to be a consequence of the children's efforts. What basis do you have for saying that?

The best ranked public schools are consistently in the richest neighborhoods, and the worst ranked ones are consistently in the poorest neighborhoods. I don't think this can be disputed. So, what's more likely? 1. Rich neighborhoods result in well-funded schools with the resources to provide a superior education, better than the not-well-funded schools that are in poor neighborhoods. Or 2. A superior education comes…

[deleted]

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funding doesn't help enough by itself, and the poor school districts get supplemental funds from federal and state governments bringing their total funding on par or higher than richer school districts. I went through poor public schools and richer public schools. Resources were not very different. If anything less competition at poor schools gave me an extra edge.

> If anything less competition at poor schools gave me an extra edge. How so? Are they curving grades? Smaller class sizes because of more drop-outs? More teacher attention because you cared more than the 'poor' kids?

[deleted]

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#254
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

Wow. I honestly feel bad for your kids.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#255
post #63
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

As a publicly educated kid who started working when he was 15-1/2 (the legal minimum age in CA for a work permit at the time), I'd encourage you to rethink the importance of child-like innocence. Not that I regret my choices, but that 13 is just a little too young to be career-oriented, and 16 is probably the bare minimum. I was into computers at that age, but if my decisions were based on profitability or profession…

> As a publicly educated kid who started working when he was 15-1/2 (the legal minimum age in CA for a work permit at the time), I'd encourage you to rethink the importance of child-like innocence.

Only adults think that any such thing as child-like innocence actually exists. Children see and hear everything.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#256
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

Great. After they're done working for you, they can work for my children, who'll be taught some social skills.

If you're able to teach your children your skills for spotting opportunity like you do here, then you're my roll model parent!

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#257
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a publicly educated kid who started working when he was 15-1/2 (the legal minimum age in CA for a work permit at the time), I'd encourage you to rethink the importance of child-like innocence. Not that I regret my choices, but that 13 is just a little too young to be career-oriented, and 16 is probably the bare minimum. I was into computers at that age, but if my decisions were based on profitability or profession…

> As a publicly educated kid who started working when he was 15-1/2 (the legal minimum age in CA for a work permit at the time), I'd encourage you to rethink the importance of child-like innocence. Only adults think that any such thing as child-like innocence actually exists. Children see and hear everything .

That's the point, their innocence is lost too early.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at a Walgreens a little while ago, and there was a lady buying some sort of cable for a camera. I remember her literally asking the store clerk, "Will this work with a laptop, or does it have to be a computer?" I bring up this anecdote whenever someone else asserts " is common sense, no one could be confused by it". Help your parents with tech support at least once a year (or your friends' parents if yours are…

Forget about tech supporting your parents to see the gap. I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to explain to my wife (elementary school teacher) why I need to spend much of my spare time on my laptop to try to keep up in the IT/tech industry. She just can't understand how I can 'train' myself new, marketable skills when she just has to go to official training sessions in class/lecture settings a few times per year. Pret…

Its important to point out that school teaching is a churn and burn field. 17 to 19 years of training followed by a half life of 6 years in the classroom. Not a recent problem either, goes back decades. If your career is shorter than a pro football player, no need for continuous development on a large level, or "most teachers sit in a classroom for a day" is enough if most of them will be out of the field in a couple years regardless.

The career structure, much like the rest of the country, is extremely pyramidical. So teaching in the slums requires a clean(ish) criminal record and frankly not much else, at least to get hired. On the other hand, civilized low crime areas are hyper competitive. So training and advanced degrees translate into nicer working environment.

There will be survivors even 3 or 4 half lives out in teaching, much like programming, but use em up and throw em away as a national policy does not encourage serious system wide training efforts.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#259
post #103
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

I think that teaching your children how to make money while they are still young is one of the most valuable things you can do for them. This, along with the ability to learn independently, will allow them to avoid a lot of misery for the rest of their lives. There are many people who are doomed to stressful lives living paycheck to paycheck because early in life they didn't learn a lucrative trade and they didn't le…

There are a lot of things one should learn for a content life. As parents, we are tempted to ignore in our teachings many things that we've already mastered and not struggling with, but which are very important nevertheless. I'd be cautious to tag something specific as "the most valuable thing" only for this reason. There's always a balance, trade-offs all in between.

For your example, you can teach your children how to be very successful at making money and achieve an accomplished financial situation, then they still may get abused somehow through some weakness you left them out with in your parental education.

Re: America's High School Graduates Look Like Other Countries' High School Dropouts

#260
post #32

I don't expect the public school system to teach my children anything. Hence why they won't be attending. Most of the schools I attended growing up were completely useless. Filthy, full of drugs and gangs. Sadly I even listened to some of my teachers more than I did my own parents (indoctrination) which I now see lead me down the wrong path. I don't expect the public school to teach my kids any kind of career skills…

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