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A look at the Technology behind the 4D Game Miegakure [video]

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Re: A look at the Technology behind the 4D Game Miegakure [video]

#21

Post by arijun »

logicrook wrote: post #13

Most of the transcript of the video is on the main page ( http://miegakure.com/ ), along with illustrative images and gifs. They evoke how their inspiration was flatland, which when I read it I found strikingly unimaginative. To explain, the characters are 2D objects; the book describes some of the problems these beings encounter, but doesn't really solve them, so the described society doesn't really hold up. One ins…

I think the real cleverness of that book is the comparison of 2D creatures to 3D, and use that to guide our otherwise non-existent intuition of what 4D space would look like. I could imagine one thinking of that analogue before reading the book, making it seem less novel. But you have to remember that we've lived in a society that's had that book for nearly 150 years, so it would not be surprising if some of the ideas from the book became a mainstream meme.

Re: A look at the Technology behind the 4D Game Miegakure [video]

#22

Post by skizm »

Analemma_ wrote: post #7

Still sounds wonderful, but when's the damn thing coming out? I first heard about Miegakure in an xkcd from 6 years ago, and was immediately ready to hand over my money. It's been hard to maintain that enthusiasm through one and a half Presidential terms...

In case you were wondering like I was: https://xkcd.com/721/

Re: A look at the Technology behind the 4D Game Miegakure [video]

#23

Post by logicrook »

arijun wrote: post #21
logicrook wrote: post #13

Most of the transcript of the video is on the main page ( http://miegakure.com/ ), along with illustrative images and gifs. They evoke how their inspiration was flatland, which when I read it I found strikingly unimaginative. To explain, the characters are 2D objects; the book describes some of the problems these beings encounter, but doesn't really solve them, so the described society doesn't really hold up. One ins…

I think the real cleverness of that book is the comparison of 2D creatures to 3D, and use that to guide our otherwise non-existent intuition of what 4D space would look like. I could imagine one thinking of that analogue before reading the book, making it seem less novel. But you have to remember that we've lived in a society that's had that book for nearly 150 years, so it would not be surprising if some of the idea…

But Erewhon came in 1872, and contained many ideas that are still very strong (emergent life, creation of the technological system and clash with the ancient order (Church))...

It's a bit like the 'Seinfeld is unfunny' trope; even at the time, some people found it unfunny. It does not mean that this effect does not play a role, but you seldom hear "well, Copernicus is such a greaaat guy for discovering that the Earth revolves around the Sun", while it does suffer from it.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the Greeks had devised such stories illustrating some mathematical concepts; it's just that more than 150 years ago, the audience for 'geeky stories' was not so big, as well as the potential writers for such stories weren't so numerous (although Gauss seems a bit cheeky on his portrait). HN just wasn't there.

Re: A look at the Technology behind the 4D Game Miegakure [video]

#24

Post by wolfgke »

77pt77 wrote: post #20
wolfgke wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An image of a video is a slice of it for some constant time coordinate. If you instead fix a spatial coordinate you get images as the two left and center images in > http://electronicimaging.spiedigitallibrary.org/data/Journal...

You changed the assertion because you're including time. The parent said "A 2D slice of a 3D object." And that's wrong, it's a 2D projection of a 3D object. If you include time then it's a slice in the time component, right, but that wasn't being discussed.

The third dimension is time.

Videos can also be generated without using projections (though cameras use this method).

Re: A look at the Technology behind the 4D Game Miegakure [video]

#25

Post by zardo »

wnkrshm wrote: post #11
wangii wrote: post #10

is the avatar in the game 3D or 4D?

if they make the argument that the 3D level geometry is a slice of 4D geometry, then a 3D animation frame of the character is also a slice of 4D geometry (the 4D geometry interpolated from 3D keyframes and timing curves)

A 4d collision boundary would limit the players ability to explore, just taking a few steps would require solving a 4d puzzle.

Re: A look at the Technology behind the 4D Game Miegakure [video]

#26

Post by logfromblammo »

wolfgke wrote: post #24
77pt77 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You changed the assertion because you're including time. The parent said "A 2D slice of a 3D object." And that's wrong, it's a 2D projection of a 3D object. If you include time then it's a slice in the time component, right, but that wasn't being discussed.

The third dimension is time. Videos can also be generated without using projections (though cameras use this method).

Time is a different type of dimension than the spatial dimensions. If you're really going to bring time into it, you need to use a dimensional signature, wherein one number represents dimensions that square to a positive number, another represents dimensions that square to a negative number, and another represents dimensions that square to zero.

A video is either {2,1,0}-D or {1,2,0}-D, depending on the mathematical sign convention you chose for your spacelike dimensions.

When people use a single number, they invariably mean spacelike dimensions, as null dimensions and multiple timelike dimensions tend to give people the screaming jibblies when they try to visualize them.

Re: A look at the Technology behind the 4D Game Miegakure [video]

#28

Post by kordless »

wolfgke wrote: post #17
77pt77 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Projection, not slice.

An image of a video is a slice of it for some constant time coordinate. If you instead fix a spatial coordinate you get images as the two left and center images in > http://electronicimaging.spiedigitallibrary.org/data/Journal...

I think it's not a slice. If you sliced reality in half you'd see the cross-section of whatever you sliced in half, as opposed to that multi-planer cow standing over there beyond the slice point. Our 2D version of the 3D world we perceive to inhabit is projecting (and mixing) light that falls on the back of our eye. It's a highly dynamic and contextual environment backed by the absolutely best encryption known anywhere. Other simulations, while cost effective, can't compete with our reality's reliability. Call today for your free trial!

Re: A look at the Technology behind the 4D Game Miegakure [video]

#29

Post by logfromblammo »

arijun wrote: post #21
logicrook wrote: post #13

Most of the transcript of the video is on the main page ( http://miegakure.com/ ), along with illustrative images and gifs. They evoke how their inspiration was flatland, which when I read it I found strikingly unimaginative. To explain, the characters are 2D objects; the book describes some of the problems these beings encounter, but doesn't really solve them, so the described society doesn't really hold up. One ins…

I think the real cleverness of that book is the comparison of 2D creatures to 3D, and use that to guide our otherwise non-existent intuition of what 4D space would look like. I could imagine one thinking of that analogue before reading the book, making it seem less novel. But you have to remember that we've lived in a society that's had that book for nearly 150 years, so it would not be surprising if some of the idea…

Super Paper Mario does much the same when Paper Mario acquires the limited ability to rotate and move in a third spatial dimension as a 2-dimensional character.

Fez is similar.

We don't yet have a graphic game that makes a fourth spatial dimension more intuitive, but I do recall playing text adventures that had very limited 4-d interaction. The white cubes in Spellbreaker were all hyperfaces of a hypercube, after all.

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