Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug • Hacker News Board

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#241

Post by ImTalking » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 1:49 AM UTC

corin_ wrote: post #207

delecti wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more orders of magnitude more dangerous and addictive (in that marijuana is almost impossible to OD on, and isn't addictive at all). Marijuana is certainly not the magical silver bullet some make it out to be, but it's incredibly effective for many people whose only other recourse would be opiates.

FYI, cannabis certainly can be addictive, just without serious physical dependance. And even on the mentally addictive side, obviously far less than opiates - but certainly there are people who fit the definition of being addicted to weed.

Cannabis is not physically addicting, and if the person is psychologically addicted then it will be that person's environment which will be the culprit.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#242

Post by ImTalking » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 1:51 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #159

vixen99 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficult to believe that 'better social support' doesn't mean a government spending more money. Is the tax payer expected to fund people to 'safely enjoy drugs in moderation'?

Why not tax the drugs themselves to provide this support?

But we do. Alcohol and nicotine are taxed.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#243

Post by twblalock » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 2:14 AM UTC

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #232

twblalock wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the libertarian argument is basically that people ought to be able to do what they want with their own bodies, including consuming drugs, and that it's not the government's business if they endanger themselves. If drugs become legalized, the system that gets created will not fit the libertarian vision.

At least the bellwethers in Colorado et al seem pretty consistent with what libertarians might think ok.

Thats because weed does not destroy peoples minds and bodies like crack and heroin do. There is therefore no need for public health interventions on the scale of what would happen if more dangerous drugs were legalized.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#244

Post by vectorjohn » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 2:23 AM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #215

j2bax wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don't consider myself such a good judge. If someone's in need, I like to think I will help them in whatever capacity I can. Many things lead to people making bad decisions, and they aren't all internal 1-sided factors.

I guess that's where we disagree. I do consider myself a good judge. If you don't feel you have a sharp rational thought, an ability to consider a wide range of factors, including a dose of fair human compassion, then yes you probably should just help out everyone by default. That's a good default position to take, and one I do commend. Myself on the other hand, I believe in my own ability to be fair in judgement, to…

It's not just arrogant and cruel, it's also logically inconsistent. Everything libertarian leads to an everyone for themselves hellscape. But this in particular would indicate you shouldn't help someone in a car accident because of driving in bad weather, or really driving at all. They took the risk, the risk was well known, so screw them while they bleed to death in the car, right?

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#245

Post by yarou » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 2:39 AM UTC

For some reason, I never saw the appeal of opiates.

Granted, I use them somewhat occasionally (as needed) for pain, but they don't really cause in me the compulsive, addictive behavior I've read about. My internet addiction (HN included) is far worse than any chemical substance I've ever used.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#246

Post by c3534l » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 2:43 AM UTC

This isn't really surprising. Opiates have long been used as both recreational drugs and effective analgesics. All the major opiates people abuse besides opium itself were created at one point or another as a painkiller. It's unfortunate, but they're also really good at their jobs. I think that if you need prescription painkillers you should have them. Taken without wanton disregard they're actually fairly safe, although physical addiction is always possible.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#247

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 2:54 AM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #215

j2bax wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I don't consider myself such a good judge. If someone's in need, I like to think I will help them in whatever capacity I can. Many things lead to people making bad decisions, and they aren't all internal 1-sided factors.

I guess that's where we disagree. I do consider myself a good judge. If you don't feel you have a sharp rational thought, an ability to consider a wide range of factors, including a dose of fair human compassion, then yes you probably should just help out everyone by default. That's a good default position to take, and one I do commend. Myself on the other hand, I believe in my own ability to be fair in judgement, to…

[deleted]

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#248

Post by ArkyBeagle » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:05 AM UTC

herge wrote: post #238

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitutional provenance for the FAA is pretty good. It at least falls under the Commerce Clause. Flying from New York to LA is interstate, and it's commerce.

And what about flying from New York to Albany, or flying a quadcopter in your back yard?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Aviation_Act_of_1958

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#249

Post by ArkyBeagle » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:09 AM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #243

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least the bellwethers in Colorado et al seem pretty consistent with what libertarians might think ok.

Thats because weed does not destroy peoples minds and bodies like crack and heroin do. There is therefore no need for public health interventions on the scale of what would happen if more dangerous drugs were legalized.

Can't speak to crack/meth but junkies seem to be able to last a good long while. Dr. Carl Hart has interesting things to say on the whole subject.

One of his ideas - most addicts just quit.

There is much that is unknown on the subject.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#250

Post by groovy2shoes » Thu, Mar 10, 2016, 3:10 AM UTC

evincarofautumn wrote: post #130

twblalock wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

> Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse them. I agree. However, I’m talking not only about treating addiction, but preventing abuse in the first place. The first line of social support is made up of our friends and families. Outreach and education could foster better attitudes toward mental health and addiction, and reduce the systemic effects of stress an…

I admire your courage to speak out about your alcoholism on a public forum. You're not alone. I myself went through a rough period of alcoholism for about 5 years.

You're absolutely correct about social support: when I finally kicked the habit (about 3 years ago), I was only able to do it because I switched jobs and made some new friends. The stress of my previous job combined with the loneliness of being isolated from all my friends were, in retrospect, huge players in my alcoholism. In fact, once I was in that new position, I found it remarkably easy to reduce my drinking to social norms.

Nowadays, I hardly even drink at all. I haven't had a drink since before Thanksgiving, and I don't even think about it anymore.

Hang in there. If there's any way I can help, let me know. I'm a fellow PL enthusiast and designer (I still refer to one of your concatenative programming articles now and then, thanks for that!), so perhaps we can chat sometime :)