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Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

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Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#211

Post by EC1 »

marssaxman wrote: post #113
EC1 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really sad that you won't explore psychedelics because of personal idealism. You only get one life.

My personal idealism runs strongly in the opposite direction, but I would argue that the previous commenter's choice is not at all sad, for the same reason you use here! You only get one life, and it would be really sad to waste your limited, irreplaceable hours of consciousness pursuing activities you aren't interested in just because other people think you ought to.

I agree, and acid is not in that category.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#212

Post by marssaxman »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #161
marssaxman wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal idealism runs strongly in the opposite direction, but I would argue that the previous commenter's choice is not at all sad, for the same reason you use here! You only get one life, and it would be really sad to waste your limited, irreplaceable hours of consciousness pursuing activities you aren't interested in just because other people think you ought to.

Let's just say once the acid kicks in you'll realize why people said to try it ;)

Ah, sorry, my phrasing was too indirect: I'm usually one of the people suggesting that others should try it! I have had a great variety of fascinating, entertaining, sometimes difficult, generally beneficial experiences involving LSD and other psychedelics. I think many people who have never had such experiences would probably enjoy them and benefit from them, and I look forward to the day that the drug war ends and sanity returns so that more people will have that opportunity.

And yet - there are a vast array of things to do with one's time that many people would probably enjoy and/or benefit from, but we simply don't have enough hours in our lives to investigate them all. If someone believes that my kind of fun is not for them, my inclination is to respect that choice, regardless of the reasons behind it, because we have to decide not to do most of the possible things in life and thus the reasons for rejecting many of them will necessarily be somewhat arbitrary.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#213

Post by hutzlibu »

md224 wrote: post #62
hawkice wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you can find. I don't want to use them, and I think other people would be better off if they reduced their usage as well. You say you don't understand why drugs are illegal. I think this is your core misunderstanding. You are not the most anti-drug person I can find. I've never used alcohol or cigarettes (I didn't even use painkillers when my four wisdom teet…

Interesting view. What I find problematic is equating drug use with being "high." Sure, you can use enough of a drug that it impairs you, but you can also use less than that. Some may refer to this as "microdosing" but I think this gets it backwards. If anything, drugs are useful tools that can also be "macrodosed" by those wishing to experience extreme effects. I would like to live in a world where all drugs are leg…

What I find problematic, is equating the word "high" with "wasted" ... High ... in a higher state of mind.

But of course, there is a connection, because people tend to force that high so much, that they just do too much ... and also forgetting that you can't be "high" forever. What goes up, usually comes down.

(just being pedantic, in general I agree with you)

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#215

Post by rubicon33 »

j2bax wrote: post #199
rubicon33 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they broke their leg while doing something that endangered not only themself, but their family, their friends, and society on a whole, I might not jump at an opportunity to help them.

Personally I don't consider myself such a good judge. If someone's in need, I like to think I will help them in whatever capacity I can. Many things lead to people making bad decisions, and they aren't all internal 1-sided factors.

I guess that's where we disagree. I do consider myself a good judge. If you don't feel you have a sharp rational thought, an ability to consider a wide range of factors, including a dose of fair human compassion, then yes you probably should just help out everyone by default. That's a good default position to take, and one I do commend.

Myself on the other hand, I believe in my own ability to be fair in judgement, to straddle that difficult line between compassion and personal responsibility. I believe it IS possible to leave someone bleeding in the street because they chose to endanger themself, their family, their community, and the quality of life of everyone on this planet.

That's a position that will strike many as arrogant, entitled, and downright wrong. I can understand that position, and still choose to disagree with it. As an ideal, I hold personal responsibility in the highest regard, while still understanding that life hits you hard sometimes in ways you cant possible predict.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#216

Post by bronz »

robryan wrote: post #194
bronz wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some drugs must be outlawed. Asking why heroin or cocaine need to be illegal is like asking why gambling has to be illegal. If you allow people to use addictive drugs or gamble freely then they will destroy themselves. Or huge numbers of people will, anyway.

Making them illegal hasn't stopped anyone.

I think that there are two kinds of drug users, basically. People use drugs because of hardship and people who use drugs because of boredom. When it comes to the hardship camp, I think the best solution is to alleviate the hardship. This means making sure that everyone has a well paying, respectable job and making sure public infrastructure is healthy and so on. When it comes to boredom users though, it's hard to come up with a solution besides punishment. Look at the current heroin epidemic. Yes, it is illegal to use drugs, but affluent white kids don't have to worry about police, so they just don't care. I grew up in an affluent, white neighborhood so I have seen this first hand. In these places, there might as well be no laws regarding drugs. And I think the results are not very surprising. Dumb teenage kids try heroin and then get hooked and then suffer some horrible consequence which can oftentimes be death. I personally knew two people who died that way.

Your argument is like saying that we should make insider trading legal because people still do insider trading. Or that we should abandon financial laws and regulations because the great recession happened in spite of them. This is incorrect. Regulations prevent financial collapses. If harsh punishment were distributed to everyone who engaged in corporate crime then corporate crime would plummet. And I truly believe that if affluent white kids had a real, tangible threat to their short term well-being in response to drug use then we would see a massive decline in their drug use. I know that HN hates this opinion but I'm just being honest. Go ahead and hate me. Downvote away.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#217

Post by maxxxxx »

drug3737 wrote: post #82
krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

Singapore, Indonesia and many other Asian countries have more draconian drug laws than the USA. Their drug usage and crime and rates are far lower than the US, Portugal, Netherlands, Canada and other countries with more lenient drug laws.

I can only speak as an immigrant to the Us. The US has a culture of pill popping. Doctors are much more likely to give you strong painkillers than German doctors so the drug use is higher. I don't think it has to do with drug laws.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#218

Post by hutzlibu »

massysett wrote: post #206
elipsey wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? Suposing that it doesn't, doing nothing would be a hell of lot cheaper and easier than what we are doing now. Opiodes are derived from cheap agricultural products. A tablet of herion needn't cost more than asprin. The explicit goal of federal enforcment agencies is to raise pri…

> and it's not helping anyone except the sprawling profession of drug-warriors, and the black market gangsters High prices are reducing drug usage. That's basic economics. Food is cheap, so people eat a lot and get fat. Alcohol is cheap, so people drink a lot and destroy themselves. It's not hard to deduce what cheap heroin would do.

Oversimplification. Water is cheap, do people drink too much, so they loose too much salt?

People eat or drink to compensate for other things. Happens with heroine, too, sure. But for some the right drug at the right time is medicine, to get their life back in balance. If you have more options than just overeating or overdrinking, then your chances are higher that you find, what you need to get on with your life ...

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#219

Post by bronz »

adrianN wrote: post #180
bronz wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some drugs must be outlawed. Asking why heroin or cocaine need to be illegal is like asking why gambling has to be illegal. If you allow people to use addictive drugs or gamble freely then they will destroy themselves. Or huge numbers of people will, anyway.

But gambling is not illegal? What about casinos and those coin operated machines you see in every bar?

Gambling is illegal in many, many places and in the places where gambling is legal many people get sucked in and lose tons of money, sometimes pushing themselves into poverty and ruin. These are all pretty well known things. I don't know what else to say.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#220

Post by Havoc »

I try to stick to Aspirin & Paracetamol for this reason. Even Paracetamol feels a touch dicey @ liver failure stats.

However I've been in decent pain for 1 year+ before so I know what its like & can totally understand why people go for the powerful stuff. Continuous pain like that slowly but surely grinds your psyche to fine dust over the long run. Thats the part that people without chronic pain miss...

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