Earlier quoted context omitted.
Caveat to your statement: Reported usage and crime rates. How many of the Asian countries you mentioned have a free and robust press industry that investigates government claims without fear of retribution? I'm of the opinion none, none you mentioned. Therefore I question the validity of your statement at the core, before moving on to other issues which might be a factor of comparison, notably homogenous versus highl…
Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, to name a few, are seen as less corrupt than countries like Portugal, France and Spain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index All the Asian countries I mentioned have more draconian drug laws, less crime and less drug usage rates than the European ones I mentioned (along with the United States). It's easy to dismiss my argument by calling them corrupt and their statis…
Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug
101–110 of 318 posts
Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug
#102This seems like a particularly limited article, although a better slant than many. The NY Times just had this (also not wonderful, but with some additional information) article a few days ago: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/07/us/heroin-epidemic-increas... While the title mentions heroin, the article at least mentions that deaths are frequently due to more deadly prescription painkillers being mixed in. One thing I w…
Right now, a lot of people in the United States are misserable on a lot of levels. It's not just their back pain, or the roaming pain--misery seems to bring. It's the economy. It's finding a place other than a room in your baby boomer's parent's home. It's even finding a shit job--a shit job used to be easy to find. Now--shit jobs are just aweful. Plus, you are competing with very desperate immigrants that happily work for minimum wage, and have no social qualms living like caned Sardines. (I 'm not stereotyping. A lot of immigrants don't see anything weird with a sharing a small room with multiple family members.) In the U.S. it's looked down upon. Especially in the formative years, where you are trying to prove to that perfect person you are a Superman/Superwoman. You are the one. You are the independent winner. You are the one he/she should marry, or just have sex with. It's not your fault you not the big baller. And no it's not just getting the B.S. Degree. It's a whole lot more than that.
Back to the person in pain on opioids. The drugs make them feel better. This is what they think they need to function in this world--some Do! Physical pain is Real?
The big problem is opioids lose their efficy over time. Doctors don't tell the patient in pain up front about tolerance. Why--because in a lot of medicine, a good doctor wants to induce the placebo effect, along with the effect from the drug, and their not idiots. Some actually want you to feel better. They all don't just don't care about the office visit fee. I think?
(While opoids do require more, and more over time in order to get the original effect; there are studies done in Rest Homes, with older subjects where tolerance of opoids did not materialize. The studies are numerious, and many doctors were taught opoids are safe in med school.)
In my case, and the people I know opoids are far from being a non-addictive drug, or tolerance resistant. But the drug has been so vilified, and stereotyped who knows. All those addiction t.v. shows, and even well meaning professionals have told us for years, getting off opoids is very hard. I truly wonder just how difficult getting off opioids is--if we weren't conditions into thinking it's the most difficult drug to kick? I know when I'm told something is going to be a bitch to get off of--it's always worse than the times I didn't know how difficult the withdrawal will be. And the greatest junkie (Burrows) once said something like, 'Geting off opoids is not as hard as they say.'
Now to the opoid deaths. I don't know about the deaths among very ill patients whom are on patches like fentanal. I know about the guy with the bad back who was given opoids. Then the doctor stopped the refills. That patient went to the black market to get their opoid, usually heroin because it's cheaper. At this point, their lives are usually a complete mess. If they are poor, they usually have a record with the authorities. Every day becomes a nightmare. "I'll few drinks along with the heroin--who cares?" A hit of meth--who cares? A sleeping pill with the opoid--who cares? Who cares? I've given up. I can't function like my parents did.
Death from overdose follows.
We have a problem. I think there's a short term solution to a drug problem, and an out of touch society. A society that's still living in the 50's in terms of expectations.
That short term solution is Buoenorpine. It can help a lot of these people whom are addicted to opioids. Don't require the addict to pay a fortune for this drug. Don't make them pay for expensive office visits. Just give them the drug. If they sell it, or abuse it; they go back to herion.
As to people in extreme pain, let Medical doctors treat it. Leave them alone. Let them do their jobs. No government official should be telling them how to alleviate cancer pain, or any physical pain. Hell, they shouldn't have to take a special course in order to prescribe bupenorpine. They shouldn't be limited to 100 patients. Leave MD's alone. Again--leave medial doctors alone. Let them prescribe what they feels works. If the patient abuses the drug--that's not the doctors fault.
If you think the average doctor is willy nilly writing prescriptions for opoids--well just see what happens when you see a doctor, and complain about pain.
Most likely you will be offered 400 mg's of Ibuprofen. Doctors are very leary of writing a script for any opoid. Good luck getting one. The DEA is breathing down their backs.
As a society, the people in real physical pain are being told they can't have opoids. It all seems fine, until you are that person in intense pain in that exam room.
So yes we live in a country that expects a lot from its citizens. We are all suspose to be successful. Even the poor are expected to "make it"--whatever that means anymore. At the same time jobs have gone away. We are in this sharing economy. A economy that just seems to serve the wealthy?
The glow from opoids is enticing in this judgmental society. Bupenorpine might be a quick answer to a complex problem? A real problem. What do we have to lose at this point? I'm tired of hearing about overdose from opioids. Really tired! A least freely provide naloxone over the counter?
Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Caveat to your statement: Reported usage and crime rates. How many of the Asian countries you mentioned have a free and robust press industry that investigates government claims without fear of retribution? I'm of the opinion none, none you mentioned. Therefore I question the validity of your statement at the core, before moving on to other issues which might be a factor of comparison, notably homogenous versus highl…
Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, to name a few, are seen as less corrupt than countries like Portugal, France and Spain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index All the Asian countries I mentioned have more draconian drug laws, less crime and less drug usage rates than the European ones I mentioned (along with the United States). It's easy to dismiss my argument by calling them corrupt and their statis…
In addition, there was a recent study showing that harsh penalties and rates of drug use are not correlated. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/30/punitive-drug... If you think that particular countries have unusually low rates of use, then you may be just wrong because of misreporting, or it could be to do with other societal factors (eg. children having to live at home longer with parents because of social norms or housing issues).
Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…
I wouldn't say the argument falls apart. We have an obligation to help these people no matter what. We already spend lots of money trying to help them, even though we don't do a very good job of it. That would not change. The libertarian argument against prohibition boils down to this: The government can't stop people from doing anything, it can only punish people after they've done it. Substance abuse is something w…
I am not a libertarian, but I have worked in drug policy reform advocacy groups, and a number of my colleagues were libertarians. This is not at all an accurate description of the prototypical libertarian argument against prohibition.
Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen. I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. H…
Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…
In other words, how do you want a society work where you or a family member might have a strongly prone to addiction? Do you want a society that tries to neutralize such affects so that they can still be functioning members of society? Or do you want only the whim of charity and profit motive of private industry to take care of them? I think the latter very clearly has all the wrong incentives for a stable society. It's classist, and it ignores that everyone has defects of some sort or another.
Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…
Because your addiction is also your wife's problem, your parent's problem, your company's problem. Addiction affects more than just the addict. And addicts are in need of help - while it is easy to think that "they like being high, it's their choice", in fact the addicts hate their habit more than anything, yet they can't stop using without external help. Would you help a person with a broken leg ? Why ? Well, that's…
Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
They incorporate tylenol to help prevent addiction and overdose. Too much tylenol makes you sick - very unpleasantly. Too much opiods and you feel great, until you die. The tylenol is designed to provide an edge to taking too much so that the curve correlatibg dose to pleasure doesn't always angle upwards. Being very sick, and even having liver problems is generally better than death.
Being very sick, and even having liver problems is generally better than death. I would submit to you that deliberate contamination of a drug for the sole purpose of inflicting harm in search of a greater good is an outrageous policy.
Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…
Because your addiction is also your wife's problem, your parent's problem, your company's problem. Addiction affects more than just the addict. And addicts are in need of help - while it is easy to think that "they like being high, it's their choice", in fact the addicts hate their habit more than anything, yet they can't stop using without external help. Would you help a person with a broken leg ? Why ? Well, that's…
Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations Where did you detect this suggestion? > The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. That's also where the libertarian case falls apart for legalizing cheeseburgers, and motorcycles.
> Where did you detect this suggestion? From evincarofautumn's post: > However, while proceeding with legalisation, we must also establish better social support systems so that people can safely enjoy drugs in moderation. Those social support systems will cost money. They will have to be funded by taxpayers. Unless they are cheaper than the current system of enforcement and incarceration, people will not support them…
Will they? The illegal drug market currently drives prices far above the cost of production. You could probably tax any drug at 300% and it would still be cheaper than illegal alternatives. Legalizing drugs and providing support may be a net revenue generator.
Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug
#110I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…
Criminal laws create self-enforcing social norms to discourage undesirable behavior. Making something illegal is one way of society condemning that activity. Ideally, the social norm itself drives compliance, not enforcement. E.g. it's the social norm that keeps people from stealing, not the threat of getting caught. If people started ignoring the social norm at a large scale, law enforcement would have no hope of stopping them.
As a general principle this is sound. E.g. making eating and drinking on the metro illegal has worked pretty well in creating a self-enforcing social norm. Hasn't worked that way for drugs really.