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Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

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Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#91

Post by 6stringmerc »

twblalock wrote: post #64
evincarofautumn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen. I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. H…

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

Replace "drug use" with "mental health" to broaden the discussion and it eventually becomes apparent that societal issues such as individual well-being, whether drug addiction, mental instability, or a morbidly obese inducing lifestyle has costs that even a staunch libertarian would be wont to address at a systemic level, not just a notion of letting 'the private sector' or charity do the work.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#92

Post by nkrisc »

krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

Agreed. Right now we make drugs illegal and spend loads of money to prosecute and jail people who use drugs. Instead, we could make drugs legal and spend a fraction of that money helping people reduce dependence on drugs and heal.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#93

Post by xlm1717 »

user_0001 wrote: post #11

What are the rates like compared to other countries? Does the US just over prescribe painkillers, meaning more flood to the blackmarket? Is it people are getting it from the Dr and accidentally ODing? Are the Drs prescribing without care, so those who want the drug for a high and no medical reason can? I never knew painkillers to be used as party drug / fun drug in the UK (outside of the heroin using demographic) nor…

I think it's a big issue in the US because of how easy it is to obtain. Anecdotally, I have talked with people in foreign countries (I'm from the US) who say it's much harder to obtain Vicodin even with prescription. I know one who had to steal Vicodin from the doctor's office where they did clerical work because they had insomnia that had not responded to any medication they were prescribed. If they were easier to obtain abroad, I imagine other countries could have as big an issue with painkillers as the US does, and as the article says one of the main reasons painkillers were so easy to obtain in the US is the push within the medical and pharmaceutical industries to treat pain.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#94

Post by sliverstorm »

user_0001 wrote: post #13
user_0001 wrote: post #11

What are the rates like compared to other countries? Does the US just over prescribe painkillers, meaning more flood to the blackmarket? Is it people are getting it from the Dr and accidentally ODing? Are the Drs prescribing without care, so those who want the drug for a high and no medical reason can? I never knew painkillers to be used as party drug / fun drug in the UK (outside of the heroin using demographic) nor…

I probably should have read the article ------- Since the 1990s, doctors have been under more and more pressure to treat pain as a serious medical issue. Pharmaceutical companies took advantage of this desire, marketing opioid painkillers like OxyContin and Vicodin as a safe, effective solution to pain. ------ privatised health care and the profit incentive to prescribe high cost pain kills. I believe the Drs get a k…

who put the pressure on the Drs to treat pain as such?

I don't have evidence of this, but I expect the patients. People don't like pain, and they want a silver bullet to make it stop.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#95

Post by drug3737 »

6stringmerc wrote: post #86
drug3737 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore, Indonesia and many other Asian countries have more draconian drug laws than the USA. Their drug usage and crime and rates are far lower than the US, Portugal, Netherlands, Canada and other countries with more lenient drug laws.

Caveat to your statement: Reported usage and crime rates. How many of the Asian countries you mentioned have a free and robust press industry that investigates government claims without fear of retribution? I'm of the opinion none, none you mentioned. Therefore I question the validity of your statement at the core, before moving on to other issues which might be a factor of comparison, notably homogenous versus highl…

Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, to name a few, are seen as less corrupt than countries like Portugal, France and Spain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

All the Asian countries I mentioned have more draconian drug laws, less crime and less drug usage rates than the European ones I mentioned (along with the United States).

It's easy to dismiss my argument by calling them corrupt and their statistics misleading. It's another thing to actually refute my argument with facts and figures, which you haven't done.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#96

Post by musgrove »

If 47k deaths per year is an "epidemic" as the author terms it, the 610k that die each year from heart disease must be an all-out pandemic. It never was a war on drugs. Drugs are inert and aren't capable of fighting a war. It's a war on addiction. And good luck winning that on a national scale with "laws."

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#97

Post by EC1 »

krschultz wrote: post #15

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

That's really sad that you won't explore psychedelics because of personal idealism. You only get one life.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#98

Post by 6stringmerc »

I have chronic pain due to a heriditary, incurable condition. Right now one of my ankles is in an elastic wrap to ease the irritation from arthritis. In our home, we did have a bottle somewhere of Tylenol 3, aka codeine. Regular acetominophen was usually what I got to help with an issue.

As I grew into adulthood, I knew the pains I experienced were directly related to my condition, and it was my desire to not really 'cloak' the pain, but avoid it in the first place. Preventive if you will. It helps, but it's clear to me that I wanted to be healthy, and if I have to occasionally take something, so be it. Naproxen sodium has worked quite well of late.

The point of all this rambling is that I simply don't want the hassle of becoming addicted to pain pills. Or sleeping pills. Or nasal spray when it's allergy season. I've lived with pain so long for my life that I'm kind of used to it, and I do say so as a point of pride. It's the body I was born with and it's the one I'll have to use for this gig, take care of it.

I don't fault people for wanting pain treatment. I think the way the system was set up with pills flooding the US was incredibly destructive, and highly indicative of the dangers of for-profit medicine as a system. Toss in the DEA's drug laws and it just turns patients into criminals and that benefits only a very limited group.

When I eventually started seeing commercials on TV for a treatment for opiod induced constipation all I could think about was Trainspotting and that we have a real, genuine problem on our hands in the US.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#99

Post by drug3737 »

SilasX wrote: post #51
mathattack wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It boggles my mind that it's somehow acceptable for the folks running prisons to be able to lobby for the 3 strikes laws. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/09/16/117661/sb1070-p...

For context, it's not just the people running private prisons, but also public prison guard unions: http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/timkowal/2011/06/the-role-of-t...

The vast majority of drug offenders in prison are drug dealers, not drug users. It's extremely rare for drug users to be imprisoned. It boggles my mind that this propaganda is kept being pushed.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#100

Post by merpnderp »

digler999 wrote: post #87
merpnderp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person I was referring to was so traumatized by the experience she went to a surgeon two days later and begged for the surgery, even though she was strongly advised to give the pain pills and anti-inflammatories time to work. The surgeon scheduled her 12 hours later and she's been better than new for several years now....Luckily. People have agency. And should be allowed to make their choices. Especially in cases…

> People have agency. And should be allowed to make their choices. That also includes physicians. Their asses are on the line for every patient they treat. If one of their patients OD's, a full death investigation will be done, possibly including DEA, possibly including the medical board. If any perceived misconduct is found on behalf of the doctor, s/he could be sued, censured, fired, or perhaps even jailed. When yo…

"That also includes physicians." That is exactly my point. Doctors shouldn't have to make patients jump through hoops in order to prescribe medicine. Maybe I should have stated it clearer, the remedy I want is for doctors to be able to prescribe as they see fit without the DEA raiding their office and throwing them in jail.

As for over prescribing, that should be no more dangerous than any other medicine. If my doctor gives me 800mg ibuprofen and I take 10 of them in the morning, he isn't responsible. As it should be for pain killers.

As for addiction sucking, I also already agreed it is a problem, but when I weigh it against innocent people, who didn't make a conscious decision to do something wrong, I find it the lesser of evils to let people make that very bad choice. Do I really need to say I don't have a problem with doctors monitoring patients for addiction? But extreme measures are being taken, not out of an over abundance of caution for patients but because the DEA is throwing doctors in jail.

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