A lot of this is not that uncommon for other car manufacturers as well. The "Premium" warranty of a used BMW also depends on the car being serviced at an authorised repairer. Yes, it's the manufacturer trying to be more of an "integrated" service provider and keeping the resale value up, but it also ends when the car gets older. Most of those cars the go on to lead a long life with aftermarket parts and repairs.
Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars
151–160 of 367 posts
Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet Apple produces a new $500+ phone every single year, intentionally leaving behind customers who are still using hardware more than 3 years old. I would say that the software iteration business model is making inroads into the hardware market as well, including in the automotive space. The solution to your guinea pigs point is a lease model, in which customers get a new car every two years to stay on top of dev…
What you're proposing isn't a good thing. It's an ugly, environmentally unfriendly, anti-consumer model. How many people are debt-financing their $800+ iPhone? How much value is that extracting from people, and what are the opportunity costs for them? What's the environmental impact of phones becoming nothing more than expensive bricks after 2-3 years due to lack of vendor support, coupled platform DRM that prevents…
> phones becoming nothing more than expensive bricks after 2-3 years due to lack of vendor support, coupled platform DRM that prevents re-use?
I have repurposed my old Samsung android phones around the house as displays on the walls. They all have the net connection shut down and I use the wifi. They all work great and I see no reason they won't work until the hardware dies.
I know this is only one data point. Can someone describe how other models of phones can become bricks?
Edit: People less weird than me can still use the phones like tablets are used without a radio connection.
Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars
#153One of the things that makes a car valuable is having a healthy aftermarket. It looks like, from this article anyway, Tesla is doing anything they can to make sure there is no aftermarket for their vehicles. To me, a car that you can't service yourself is worthless. A car that needs the manufacturer's permission to activate is not your car--it's owned by the manufacturer. And, when the manufacturer places a threateni…
I think it's the other way around: by restricting who can service the car, they are artificially keeping the resale value up, which works out to cheaper financing (after all, you finance the difference between purchase price and resale price).
Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars
#154Interesting, I work in the wind turbine industry (at the margin, and since one month, I guess I'm an expert), and it's the same, there are interesting sensors and data everywhere, but everything is locked down, and as long as the warranty runs, the owner of the turbine is at the mercy of a very reluctant maker for every maintenance task. The owner can't use any of those very useful sensors to assess the state of the…
And then what happens when the mfr. goes out of business? For example, see Clipper Windpower.
I guess it's the same situation as when the warranty goes out, it's open bar on the internals but there is no documentation.
Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars
#155One of the things that makes a car valuable is having a healthy aftermarket. It looks like, from this article anyway, Tesla is doing anything they can to make sure there is no aftermarket for their vehicles. To me, a car that you can't service yourself is worthless. A car that needs the manufacturer's permission to activate is not your car--it's owned by the manufacturer. And, when the manufacturer places a threateni…
> A car that needs the manufacturer's permission to activate is not your car--it's owned by the manufacturer. Yes, but on the other hand it is best to view a car as a service, because this makes sure that the interests of the manufacturer (or service provider) are aligned with those of the user: no more "planned obsolescence"; and the manufacturer will plan ahead for recycling of materials because this is in their be…
You are so much more optimistic about the motivations of these "providers" than I that I am struggling to find any common ground where we could have a discussion. All I see are new opportunities for exploitation and control driven by rent-seeking behavior.
Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars
#156This is an interesting topic. And an interesting idea for a hack: Hacking a Tesla Model S to work without any connection to Big Brother, eh, Tesla, I mean.
But you want a connection to Big Brother, you want free super charging, you want software updates, you want free internet access and navigation, you want the free Spotify Account. My Car wouldnt have AutoPark, Summon, Traffic Aware Cruise Control, Lane Assist, Spotify, Autopilot, 50 ekstra Horse Power and so on, without the software updates the connection to Big Brother provides. (Euro Spec S85D)
Exactly, it's like saying I want OnStar but I don't want my car to connect to them. Or I want a mobile phone but I don't want cellular network to track what cell I'm in so it can actually route calls to my phone.
Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
10k gallons costs you $18,000 or less right now "while gas is cheap" - for a TCO of $20,000 in 20 years (plus cheap-ish repairs) - and you are driving a Merc. The model 3 (once you can actually get hold of it) will cost you $35,000 up front, plus about $7,000 in electricity for 200k miles at prices of 13-15c/kWh, plus about two battery replacements - battery lifetime is 8 years or 125k miles - at $10,000ish a pop - f…
I just filled up yesterday and gas was 2.89$ a gallon. Where exactly is it 1.80?
I just filled up for $ 1.39/gallon in Houston, Texas
Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars
#158So super-liberal-progressive Vermont doesn't have a "right to repair" law?
Interesting Mass. is the first.
Should be a federal law.
Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'd think that out of the thousands of people who have already bought one of these cars, there might be one out there with both the skills and desire to actually own what they paid for On the other hand, it could just be that those who want to really own their cars would not consider buying a Tesla anyway, and those who have the skills are too scared of the legal aspects. I think at the moment, electric cars are st…
Accidentally melting your power electronics doesn't activate your smelly, smoky, aggressive, obnoxious monster senses?
nah but tuning carbs makes me all bothered. like debugging bothered.
Re: Why I think Tesla is building throwaway cars
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
10k gallons costs you $18,000 or less right now "while gas is cheap" - for a TCO of $20,000 in 20 years (plus cheap-ish repairs) - and you are driving a Merc. The model 3 (once you can actually get hold of it) will cost you $35,000 up front, plus about $7,000 in electricity for 200k miles at prices of 13-15c/kWh, plus about two battery replacements - battery lifetime is 8 years or 125k miles - at $10,000ish a pop - f…
And don't forget the 'cost of money'. Take the purchase price, $35k, minus an old car, say $5k, and you have $30k making money for you over the 20 years. Conservatively, even in a bank in some countries, the return from $30k in the bank is going to pay for your gas then you'll still have the principle left over at the end.
Can you please clarify where your numbers are coming from and what they are referencing