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Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

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Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#391

Post by chongli »

wahrsagevogel wrote: post #263
jfaucett wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is in large part because care for family members(children and elderly parents usually) is more often foisted upon women in our society than on men." I disagree. The primary cause is that women can become pregnant - the possibility alone is in most cases enough - in which case they leave the work force for X amount of time. Depending on country, laws, and personal preferences this time period can range from a fe…

> For instance, in Germany the woman's job position must be held open for her until she decides to return to work (possibly years later), not to mention the full salary compensation months before and after giving-birth, when she is no longer working. The company will be reimbursed for the salary by the health insurance upon filling out a form. A company does not pay a single cent more than the cost of hiring another…

And what happens if that person is the CEO?

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#392

Post by shkkmo »

nickff wrote: post #386
shkkmo wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am only saying that less hours means less total work output. That is not what you said originally, but go ahead and back up that assertion instead. Working fewer hours is correlated with higher productivity, possibly high enough that the increase in efficiency is high enough to overcome the reduction in hours when it comes to total output: http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecac... That's jus…

> "> I am only saying that less hours means less total work output. That is not what you said originally, but go ahead and back up that assertion instead." That is actually what I said originally, as can be seen from the following quote: >>>> "I agree that happier and less stressed people often (but not always) have higher specific productivity (output/hour), but they are usually less productive per week/month/year."…

> That is actually what I said originally, as can be seen from the following quote:

Let us accept that I read your claim too literally and move past the semantics.

Do you have any data to back up what you are claiming?

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#393

Post by BurningFrog »

panglott wrote: post #185
ahoy wrote: post #15

This is fairly consistent with other studies. The "77%" number is arrived at by comparing the median wage of full-time male & female employees. It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. That doesn't mean we should ignore it, but it means we need more granularity. Coming out of uni/grad school, male and female salaries are equal in comparable fields. They depart a fe…

Most studies about the gender gap in pay find that most of the 77% figure is attibutable to differences in career choices/training/&c., but there remains a rough 5% difference in pay that is not attributable to those things. Ask most men if they would take a roughly 5% pay cut, and they would not say that it insignificant or something that can be ignored. Maybe the tech industry is just immune to this, but this artic…

That this ~5% difference is hard to explain doesn't mean it is caused by gender discrimination.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#394

Post by [deleted] »

panglott wrote: post #185
ahoy wrote: post #15

This is fairly consistent with other studies. The "77%" number is arrived at by comparing the median wage of full-time male & female employees. It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. That doesn't mean we should ignore it, but it means we need more granularity. Coming out of uni/grad school, male and female salaries are equal in comparable fields. They depart a fe…

Most studies about the gender gap in pay find that most of the 77% figure is attibutable to differences in career choices/training/&c., but there remains a rough 5% difference in pay that is not attributable to those things. Ask most men if they would take a roughly 5% pay cut, and they would not say that it insignificant or something that can be ignored. Maybe the tech industry is just immune to this, but this artic…

[deleted]

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#395

Post by sbov »

thescribe wrote: post #362
sbov wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sub-topic was about normalizing parental leave. Is your argument then that societal policy should only be based upon real on-average differences?

It may not be perfect, but policy real average data are probably better than policies based on ideology without average data?

Real average data is necessary but not sufficient. Policy should also consider the real outliers it may affect. So while you could argue that normalizing parental leave is unnecessary because children are better off with their mothers, we should do that while recognizing that it is not true for all family units. E.g. if there is no mother, or as in the examples I provided for the person I was replying to, there is a mother but breastfeeding is not possible.

Beyond that, if you adopt a policy that considers these outliers and normalize parental leave, there will be parents where breastfeeding is possible but the fathers still take the parental leave.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#396

Post by shkkmo »

evoloution wrote: post #387
clevernickname wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The gender roles are not baked into out DNA. Men are larger and stronger than women, women are flooded with hormones during pregnancy that force a bond between them and their children. That is literally your biology encouraging a role. >There are 'baked-in' DNA traits, that have emergently caused cultures to adopt those gender roles in their historical contexts. Evolution is random chance leading to mutations that i…

@clevernickname and @shkkmo you both have valid points and if you read carefully what you say you could agree. clevernickname is right on his points on sexual dimorphism; the hormonal and genetic differences that lead to changes in body shape/function and structural brain differences with certain tradeoffs do shape two different forms of our species geared towards different tasks. Now gender roles will depend on the…

> Now gender roles will depend on the environment that you throw the humans into (if shkkmo mentioned that, it would make sense)

I believe I did:

>> "There are 'baked-in' DNA traits, that have emergently caused cultures to adopt those gender roles in their historical contexts."

However,

> you both have valid points and if you read carefully what you say you could agree

The only thing that I am disagreeing with him on is whether "it is safe to assume that gender roles are baked into our DNA".

Gender roles are a complex property that emerge from the interaction between our DNA, our culture and our environment.

To claim that gender roles are 'baked in' to our DNA indicates that gender roles are determined by our DNA in such a way as to be inflexible and unchanging. Assuming this is true is a dangerous assumption that is not backed up by history or science and does not encourage sexual equality.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#397

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mc32 wrote: post #205
frandroid wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that we're forcing women to specialize in child-rearing, which is not economically valued or rewarded, and men to specialize in earning income, which wields huge social and economic power. And the reason this happens is that men withhold their parenting labour, and women are forced to pick up the slack. It's just like the feminist saying... "If men got pregnant, abortion would be available free of char…

One way to deal with this, is to make it equally viable for men or women to be stay-at-home patents. Viable socially (no stigma) and viable economically, so that the family simply chooses for the higher earner (if income is their determined) to have the job responsibility and the other to say home. So the problem is in the family dynamics. Society has to allow for the family dynamics to fall on either side without si…

>equally viable for men or women to be stay-at-home pa[r]ents //

Bio-engineer men to produce breastmilk?

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#398

Post by clevernickname »

shkkmo wrote: post #396
evoloution wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@clevernickname and @shkkmo you both have valid points and if you read carefully what you say you could agree. clevernickname is right on his points on sexual dimorphism; the hormonal and genetic differences that lead to changes in body shape/function and structural brain differences with certain tradeoffs do shape two different forms of our species geared towards different tasks. Now gender roles will depend on the…

> Now gender roles will depend on the environment that you throw the humans into (if shkkmo mentioned that, it would make sense) I believe I did: >> "There are 'baked-in' DNA traits, that have emergently caused cultures to adopt those gender roles in their historical contexts." However, > you both have valid points and if you read carefully what you say you could agree The only thing that I am disagreeing with him on…

>The only thing that I am disagreeing with him on is whether "it is safe to assume that gender roles are baked into our DNA".

Ah, now I understand. You're practicing the common internet commenter behavior of picking out a single strongly worded statement and ignoring everything else the person said. Uncharitably reading my comments as "hurr durr women belong in the kitchen" instead of putting some faith in the author that they might have simply meant "hey, maybe it's not just a whim of culture that women are traditionally the caretakers in just about every single successful society." All because I didn't wrap a particular sentence in 3 paragraphs of qualifications and apologies.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#399

Post by LargeCompanies »

Get as much money as you can especially while our skill/experience is in high demand; man or woman!

Use recruiters to your advantage; utilize them to get a higher salary or hourly rate. I.E. When they message you tell them your making more then you really are to see how high they can go.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#400

Post by T2_t2 »

sien wrote: post #342
cortesoft wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the father of a 10 week old baby girl, it isn't as simple as just society enabling parents to contribute equally. I am SO into being a dad. I want to do as much caregiving as possible. However, breastfeeding kinda throws a monkey wrench into the "split all the work equally" plan. For newborns, eating is what they do most of the time (when they aren't sleeping). If you breastfeed your child, which all pediatricians…

True. But from about 9 months you could both work say 3 days a week if you wanted. Mind you if you have another child you'd have to do that again. But good luck getting well paid 3 days a week work for both of you.

> But from about 9 months you could both work say 3 days a week if you wanted.

TERRIBLE advice. In all things gender and money, Penelope Trunk is a goto: http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2013/01/07/how-to-pick-a-husba...

> Don’t tell me that you want your husband to work part-time, because aiming for the impossible 50/50 split leads to divorce. First, because it’s the road to eternal poverty; part-time jobs are low pay, without advancement, and they are the first to go when it’s time to cut jobs. So you create massive financial instability by having two people work part-time.

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