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Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

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Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#91

Post by mnx »

RodericDay wrote: post #42
ahoy wrote: post #15

This is fairly consistent with other studies. The "77%" number is arrived at by comparing the median wage of full-time male & female employees. It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. That doesn't mean we should ignore it, but it means we need more granularity. Coming out of uni/grad school, male and female salaries are equal in comparable fields. They depart a fe…

I like the idea of "mandatory paternity leave", to make up for the biological asymmetry. Even if you have a stereotypical breadwinner/housewife relationship, you are legally mandated to take time off, even if you don't want to. That way you avoid the "you're allowed to take paternal leave, but real go-getters don't!" game altogether. edit: The way I see it, the responses just prove my point. "This would just make peo…

That's a terrible idea. It may seem nice to a person with a lot of disposable income, who can afford for both people in the family to take have a break from their careers, but forcing that on people who are in poor financial condition is just terrible.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#92

Post by WalterSear »

SamBam wrote: post #53
WalterSear wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be facetious: that's not at all what we are talking about here.

It's not remotely facetious. Regularly doubling your hours in the office generally does not even remotely double a person's productivity. However, appearing to be a "team player" and always being in the office makes a person appear to be a hard worker. So people who put in long hours are generally rewarded with more bonuses, promotions, and retention, even if there isn't a strong correlation with their actual work ou…

>Regularly doubling your hours in the office generally does not even remotely double a person's productivity.

Now you've erected a strawmen: no one said anything about doubling your hours. Good luck with your agenda and prejudice.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#93

Post by stale2002 »

akavi wrote: post #48
SamBam wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > This is in large part because care for family members(children and elderly parents usually) is more often foisted upon women in our society than on men. > How it is more often foisted upon women? The social pressure on men to take deadly jobs and to work longer hours is equal to the social pressure on women to choose careers where they can take time off and be with their kids. So... you're saying the exact same t…

The framing does make a difference, as it sets the perception of which gender is being "wronged". I think the GP is arguing that one could replace "care for family members... is more often foisted upon women" with "the burden of providing financially... is more often foisted upon men", and thereby shift the focus from injustice against women to injustice against men, while being an equally valid interpretation of the…

Both are true and both need to be fixed. Yes, men are often pressured to be the breadwinner of the family. That is a problem too, and it should be less stigmatized for the women to be an equal breadwinner.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#94

Post by stvswn »

RodericDay wrote: post #42
ahoy wrote: post #15

This is fairly consistent with other studies. The "77%" number is arrived at by comparing the median wage of full-time male & female employees. It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. That doesn't mean we should ignore it, but it means we need more granularity. Coming out of uni/grad school, male and female salaries are equal in comparable fields. They depart a fe…

I like the idea of "mandatory paternity leave", to make up for the biological asymmetry. Even if you have a stereotypical breadwinner/housewife relationship, you are legally mandated to take time off, even if you don't want to. That way you avoid the "you're allowed to take paternal leave, but real go-getters don't!" game altogether. edit: The way I see it, the responses just prove my point. "This would just make peo…

First, you'd be creating a penalty for hiring people who are likely to have children. As a father of young and yet unborn children, I wouldn't appreciate it.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#95

Post by jfoutz »

MAGZine wrote: post #55
tehwalrus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is; a negative correlation. Humans are much, much less efficient when tired/overworked.

Current understanding is, I think, humans are subject to DIMINISHING returns on work beyond a certain point, eventually subject to negative returns. But there IS certainly a gap between 40-hr work-week, and writing terrible buggy code because you're burnt out. Putting in a few longer days a few times a month, you won't burn out, you will get more done, and yes, it is harder on you.

IIRC, after around 60 hours of coding, developers start introducing bugs faster than they fix them. This obviously varies from person to person, but yeah, you can do negative work pretty easily in software by not thinking. It took me a long time to learn to just quit for the day and get a good night's sleep when i'm struggling with something for an excessively long time.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#96

Post by RodericDay »

mnx wrote: post #91
RodericDay wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of "mandatory paternity leave", to make up for the biological asymmetry. Even if you have a stereotypical breadwinner/housewife relationship, you are legally mandated to take time off, even if you don't want to. That way you avoid the "you're allowed to take paternal leave, but real go-getters don't!" game altogether. edit: The way I see it, the responses just prove my point. "This would just make peo…

That's a terrible idea. It may seem nice to a person with a lot of disposable income, who can afford for both people in the family to take have a break from their careers, but forcing that on people who are in poor financial condition is just terrible.

Parental leave is paid.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#97

Post by epx »

Even if the 80% thing is true, this is not a difference to lose the sleep about. It should be fixed, but the statistical noise is too significant to aim at 100%. The marginal value of money is log(x), and log(0.8) is almost 0.

When women were limited to a couple professions (nun, teacher, nurse) it was a buyer's market, and even brilliant women would have to give in to minimal salaries, or opt out of professional work. At that time, the difference was like 10x, so women made 10% of a man, and log(0.1) is a significant number. This was successfully resolved (with the help of two world wars and the invention of washing machine).

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#98

Post by RodericDay »

stvswn wrote: post #94
RodericDay wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of "mandatory paternity leave", to make up for the biological asymmetry. Even if you have a stereotypical breadwinner/housewife relationship, you are legally mandated to take time off, even if you don't want to. That way you avoid the "you're allowed to take paternal leave, but real go-getters don't!" game altogether. edit: The way I see it, the responses just prove my point. "This would just make peo…

First, you'd be creating a penalty for hiring people who are likely to have children. As a father of young and yet unborn children, I wouldn't appreciate it.

Currently there's a penalty for hiring women based on that exact same reasoning.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#99

Post by 13thLetter »

_jmar777 wrote: post #78

> they’re getting equal pay for equal equal positions, education, and experience While those are certainly relevant control factors, I would presume that any conclusions are premature without demonstrating a lack of bias in the actual positions men vs. women are promoted to, relative to their experience and education. I.e., large disparities in salary by gender for "Software Engineer III" within the same organization…

> While those are certainly relevant control factors, I would presume that any conclusions are premature without demonstrating a lack of bias in the actual positions men vs. women are promoted to, relative to their experience and education.

I'm wondering why the default assumption is that there is bias, and we're being expected to prove a negative here.

Re: Study Finds No Gender Gap in Tech Salaries

#100

Post by afarrell »

mnx wrote: post #91
RodericDay wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of "mandatory paternity leave", to make up for the biological asymmetry. Even if you have a stereotypical breadwinner/housewife relationship, you are legally mandated to take time off, even if you don't want to. That way you avoid the "you're allowed to take paternal leave, but real go-getters don't!" game altogether. edit: The way I see it, the responses just prove my point. "This would just make peo…

That's a terrible idea. It may seem nice to a person with a lot of disposable income, who can afford for both people in the family to take have a break from their careers, but forcing that on people who are in poor financial condition is just terrible.

I think parent means mandatory paid leave.
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