41–50 of 562 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd be amazed if there wasn't a correlation between time in the office and productivity. There may be very good reasons for the disparity in pay.
There is; a negative correlation. Humans are much, much less efficient when tired/overworked.
This is fairly consistent with other studies. The "77%" number is arrived at by comparing the median wage of full-time male & female employees. It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. That doesn't mean we should ignore it, but it means we need more granularity. Coming out of uni/grad school, male and female salaries are equal in comparable fields. They depart a fe…
Even if you have a stereotypical breadwinner/housewife relationship, you are legally mandated to take time off, even if you don't want to. That way you avoid the "you're allowed to take paternal leave, but real go-getters don't!" game altogether.
edit: The way I see it, the responses just prove my point. "This would just make people discriminate against x!". That's exactly why it needs to be mandatory, affecting more people, so the issue doesn't become invisible based on it affecting only women.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. It also doesn't account for full time covering a wide number of hours worked. Full time can be 37 hours a week or 45 hours a week, can comparing them as both just being 'full time' misses quite a lot. >This is in large part because care for family members(children and elderly parents usually) is more often foisted upon wome…
Elsewhere, on a different topic, you posted something along the same lines: > Which gender gets killed most often at work because of a social pressure that your value is determined by having a job, so if the only job options are dangerous, you best take one anyways? Do you like gender roles or not? You've already posted like 5 times in this thread, and I'm not sure if your perspective is "let's do away with gender ro…
>I think the deeper problem is why are women forced in the child care role and men into the bread winning roles and how to fix that (which you do mention).
I would hope that makes my position on the matter clear enough. But in case it doesn't.
Wage disparity is caused by gender roles, not by discrimination. But gender roles are still a problem, especially for the people who are forced into the roles they do not like.
But... even if I made posts that completely contradict everything I said (and I do that sometimes when trying out arguments for sides I don't normally support), that does not invalidate anything in the current posts.
This is fairly consistent with other studies. The "77%" number is arrived at by comparing the median wage of full-time male & female employees. It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. That doesn't mean we should ignore it, but it means we need more granularity. Coming out of uni/grad school, male and female salaries are equal in comparable fields. They depart a fe…
>It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. It also doesn't account for full time covering a wide number of hours worked. Full time can be 37 hours a week or 45 hours a week, can comparing them as both just being 'full time' misses quite a lot. >This is in large part because care for family members(children and elderly parents usually) is more often foisted upon wome…
> How it is more often foisted upon women? The social pressure on men to take deadly jobs and to work longer hours is equal to the social pressure on women to choose careers where they can take time off and be with their kids.
So... you're saying the exact same thing. There is a social pressure for the women to be in careers where they are caring for kids, and for men not to be.
So what did you take issue with in the statement above? Just the word "foist," maybe?
This is fairly consistent with other studies. The "77%" number is arrived at by comparing the median wage of full-time male & female employees. It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. That doesn't mean we should ignore it, but it means we need more granularity. Coming out of uni/grad school, male and female salaries are equal in comparable fields. They depart a fe…
> We need to upend the idea that family care is solely the domain of women (normalizing parental leave for fathers with newborns is a good Don't have a kid, but I would think that an infant is better off having his mother close to him in his early months of life compared to having his father, for the simple biological reason that the mother can breast-feed, while a father can't. From what I remember reading kids who…
Only that paternity leave should be considered normal, something that all companies offer and expect you to take. Whether both parents are at home, or just the dad in cases where the mother can't easily take time off, either is fine.
Currently there is a gender asymmetry in that maternity leave is normal (and required by law), but paternity leave is frequently non-existent, or discouraged.
Normalized paternity leave is the norm in most of Europe.
I took four weeks off for our first child, and will be taking 3-4 weeks off for the second. It's awesome.
Does anyone have a link to reliable breakdowns of different professions by race and gender? Tech gets slammed particularly hard for being "white male cishet scum" and I'd love to see how it compares to other fields. I can't imagine fields like law or nursing or mining or teaching or policing are much more equal.
edit: Here's an updated version for 2015: http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat39.htm
edit2: And here's a curated google doc where I calculated the gender gap for each occupation with sufficient data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15vJGu8IMbvrVz6FqCg3r...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. It also doesn't account for full time covering a wide number of hours worked. Full time can be 37 hours a week or 45 hours a week, can comparing them as both just being 'full time' misses quite a lot. >This is in large part because care for family members(children and elderly parents usually) is more often foisted upon wome…
> > This is in large part because care for family members(children and elderly parents usually) is more often foisted upon women in our society than on men. > How it is more often foisted upon women? The social pressure on men to take deadly jobs and to work longer hours is equal to the social pressure on women to choose careers where they can take time off and be with their kids. So... you're saying the exact same t…
I think the GP is arguing that one could replace "care for family members... is more often foisted upon women" with "the burden of providing financially... is more often foisted upon men", and thereby shift the focus from injustice against women to injustice against men, while being an equally valid interpretation of the objective facts.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm confused by your comment. Facts should either support a discussion and foster it's continuation, or, it should shut down a discussion until new facts are presented. We COULD all still be talking about how square the earth is, but I think we've moved on to more fruitful discussions after the facts shut that one down. Speaking in an entirely abstract sense, discussions should halt if facts don't support it. I'm ope…
>I'm confused by your comment. I took their comment to be commentary on how there is still an insistence by many in society that there exists a gender gap even when many studies have given evidence that the gap is explained by a variety of factors such as work life balance. It would be nice if the discussion could move onto issues such as why there is a gender difference in work life balance desires, in hours of over…
And you can see it's not a particularly new problem: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/09/glass-staircase-not-dre...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It doesn't account for differences in industry, job title, experience, etc. It's super broad. It also doesn't account for full time covering a wide number of hours worked. Full time can be 37 hours a week or 45 hours a week, can comparing them as both just being 'full time' misses quite a lot. >This is in large part because care for family members(children and elderly parents usually) is more often foisted upon wome…
> > This is in large part because care for family members(children and elderly parents usually) is more often foisted upon women in our society than on men. > How it is more often foisted upon women? The social pressure on men to take deadly jobs and to work longer hours is equal to the social pressure on women to choose careers where they can take time off and be with their kids. So... you're saying the exact same t…
>How it is more often foisted upon women?
I show that there is an equal pressure put on men to do different things. My issue is with the "more often".
Now, maybe you were only talking about the pressure on women and not the pressure on men... you should be able to see the issue with this as well.