legalize, standardize, regulate, tax, repeat. Why is this so difficult to understand?
We have enough problems with already legalized and standardized drugs: alcohol and tobacco. It is not wise to let smokers to increase burden on society.
Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
181–190 of 376 posts
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
But Japan and Hong Kong and many others still have far lower drug use and crime rates despite their very tough laws on drug use, when compared to Portugal.
Japan has low crime rates because there is no visible underclass like blacks in America or immigrants in Europe. There are drugs that are partly or fully banned in other countries that are freely prescribed here (rohypnol, for example). Mushrooms weren't banned at all until recently. An ex's brother was prosecuted for weed but let off after paying a fine. Another guy I knew who sold was let off in exchange for his ce…
I havent been to Japan, but what about the Burakumin and the Ainu? Didnt Japan pass a law to stop discriminating against the Ainu at one point?
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
They also have very homogenous populations with a strong, shared sense of cultural identity.
I am not sure that having a strong cultural identity as anything to do with drugs consumption. For example, I am pretty sure Russians also have a fairly homogenous population with a strong identity, and they still have an alcohol problem (for other reason I am sure). But I can't see the correlation or the causation here.
Just add another example, beef consumption is very low in Hindu countries even for non-Hindus. Similar observations are true for Muslim areas and pork consumption. Case in point is that a strong cultural identity can bring about a soft enforcement of certain practices (in Japan's case potentially help to explain lower drug consumption rates).
Worth also noting that in Asian countries, attitudes to and awareness about drugs are very extreme. Beyond being far more socially deplorable, most people also harbour ignorant views on the physical harm drugs can and can't cause. There is also less glamorisation of it in media.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#184What about the fact that drugs are incompatible with the lifestyle we want our society to have? Isn't it better instead of legalizing them to find the root cause which is forcing these people to seek escapism from reality in psychoactive substances? I don't want to live in a society of drug addicts, I want to live among people of sound mind, body and spirit, who conduct themselves honestly and honourable among their…
Have you considered that perhaps being fed a lifetime of propaganda has lead you to the conclusion that "drug"[1] use is somehow incompatible (if not actually assistive) to being of "sound mind, body, and spirit"?
[1] (that is, whatever we decide to lump together under that ridiculous umbrella term)
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#185I've always thought that, in the US, that States could provide a perfect market testing platform for various social ideas. You don't want abortion? Make Kansas, say, a no abortion state. Legalized drugs? Head your head to Colorado. Socialism? Sure New Hampshire is almost there already anyway. Well, you get the point. It's been proven that actual markets almost always work as well if not better than diktat, so these "…
The US works well because it's united at the federal level. What you are suggesting would only work if that level didn't exist.
This is a funny statement to me, since the initial federalization was supposed to exist without predisposing a much greater exercise in states rights than what we see today. (far fewer constraints on state law from federal)
I'd adjust your statement: "What you are suggesting would only work if the level (of federal power we have NOW) didn't exist"
That all being said, I'm not even sure my full level of pessimism is merited; certain states had been independently experimenting with e.g. health care reform 10+ years ago which ended up forming the basis for the ACA. This sort of state based trial seems like it s exactly what the parent was suggesting, and what was alluded to in Brandeis's famous "Laboratories of democracy" quote that seems very apt to this discussion.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#186I think if drugs themselves were legalized, non-violent drug offenders pardoned, and then former drug trafficking cartels treated legally as terrorist organizations - we would get somewhere. I really have no problem tight packing prisons if it's full of violent thugs. The only problem is how this could potentially affect the second amendment - because the war on drugs would no longer be on unarmed drug users, it would be solely on violence. Using an umbrella term like terrorism to encompass the actions of cartel gang members could potentially lead to further racial divides. It's tough. But legalize pot please, ha!
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the US culture, I think a lot would depend on marketing and advertising. Consider the marketing of high fructose corn syrup, which is cheap, legal, hardly "rebellious," possibly a sort of low-grade high, and consumed in toxic quantities. I'm not arguing against legalization. But I had a similar conversation with my kids about legalizing pot. I told them that whatever the health aspects of pot use are, the pot indu…
High fructose corn syrup isn't marketed to consumers. It's marketed to corporations that otherwise would use sugar. Sugar is much more expensive in the US than elsewhere because of BS tariffs advocated for by Florida sugar barons.
True, the analogy isn't perfect, but I think it serves as a model for designing and marketing substances that are cheap, addictive, and ultimately toxic.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if hanging drug users is effective, it certainly isn't a conscionable solution. However, I really don't believe that would work anyway. Drug users should be left alone and drug abusers should have access to treatment.
And of course hanging drug users is effective: You necessarily reduce demand if you're brutal enough. Want 100% effectiveness? Pre-emptively hang everyone. War on drugs won... It misses the fundamental point, which is that the goal isn't - or shouldn't be - a drug free society. But to reduce harm. Including to the drug users. Accepting that ruining drug users - addicts or not - lives doesn't reduce harm needs to be t…
We already know effective anti-epidemic measure: isolation of infected until they all will die. At high level of drug use, hanging of drug users is the only answer.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#189I've always thought that, in the US, that States could provide a perfect market testing platform for various social ideas. You don't want abortion? Make Kansas, say, a no abortion state. Legalized drugs? Head your head to Colorado. Socialism? Sure New Hampshire is almost there already anyway. Well, you get the point. It's been proven that actual markets almost always work as well if not better than diktat, so these "…
The problem is you cannot test economic policy in the states. Social policy, absolutely. But if you try socialism in one state and its neighbor is a tax haven, business interests will just jump over the border and you will see wealth flight. It is too easy to move between states when you have money. It is much, much more complicated to move between countries.
this fact is what makes the experiment perfect. If people all move from one place because of poor policy it will give that state the incentive to adjust their policy. People should have the freedom to chose the goverment that is most inline with their values. Forcing someone to stay somewhere and pay taxes to a say unjust war or something they are morally opposed to seem to be a terrible existence.
Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs
#190> By contrast, there has been a near tripling of American deaths from heroin overdoses between 2010 and 2013, even though the law and its severe punishments remain unchanged.
But why heroin usage has raised?
I have read an (very convincing) argument that heroin usage is increasing due to the marijuana legalization. And no, it's not the typical "marijuana is a door the heavier drugs" thing, is merely supply and demand effect on the streets. Street dealers don't really sell weed as they used to now that better and legal weed exist, so they went on heroin. Heroin got a lot cheaper and widely available due to it (Unfortunately, I lost the article link).
I'm not arguing in favor or against legalization (I'm in favor all the way), my complain is how one folded the debate is. Numbers are great and they are definitely needed, but they may trick you into thinking that everything has a simple cause and effect when reality is much more complicated.
One striking example how lazy is legislation is the case of safer chemicals such as LSD or MDMA versus designer drugs such as 25i (nbomb). In some places such designer drugs are even legal (bath salts anyone?) due to how slow or careless the legislation is. As for LSD it's a long time in prison. The dealers are coerced to sell more dangerous substances.