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Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

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Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#121

Post by jMyles »

analog31 wrote: post #102
puranjay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder what would happen to drug use if it was widely and easily available. Would usage drop because it wouldn't be "rebellious" to get drugs? That was at least the motivation for a lot of younger drug users I know. In my country (India), there is a region in the Himalayas - Kasaul - where marijuana grows in the wild. It is so easily accessible that you can literally pluck some on a walk through the forest.…

In the US culture, I think a lot would depend on marketing and advertising. Consider the marketing of high fructose corn syrup, which is cheap, legal, hardly "rebellious," possibly a sort of low-grade high, and consumed in toxic quantities. I'm not arguing against legalization. But I had a similar conversation with my kids about legalizing pot. I told them that whatever the health aspects of pot use are, the pot indu…

It's not unreasonable to suggest that HFCS is in fact more toxic and more dangerous than any whole-plant drug.

(and I mean traditional plant medicines here, not, obviously, hemlock and the like :-)

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#122

Post by fsloth »

analog31 wrote: post #102
puranjay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder what would happen to drug use if it was widely and easily available. Would usage drop because it wouldn't be "rebellious" to get drugs? That was at least the motivation for a lot of younger drug users I know. In my country (India), there is a region in the Himalayas - Kasaul - where marijuana grows in the wild. It is so easily accessible that you can literally pluck some on a walk through the forest.…

In the US culture, I think a lot would depend on marketing and advertising. Consider the marketing of high fructose corn syrup, which is cheap, legal, hardly "rebellious," possibly a sort of low-grade high, and consumed in toxic quantities. I'm not arguing against legalization. But I had a similar conversation with my kids about legalizing pot. I told them that whatever the health aspects of pot use are, the pot indu…

Where I live it's illegal for tobacco companies to market their product. In any way. Anywhere. They are hidden in the shops and if one wants to buy it one needs to specifically ask for it.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#123

Post by jMyles »

lossolo wrote: post #38

What about people that are involved in illegal drug industry after legalizing drugs? Most of them know only how to deal drugs, know only crime, they will need to find new way to make money and probably it will not be a legal one. So i don't know if it's better that someone stay on corner and sell cocaine to people that WANT cocaine, without (in most cases) hurt anyone else in the process OR make that person steal, ex…

> Most of them know only how to deal drugs, know only crime, they will need to find new way to make money and probably it will not be a legal one.

This entire sentence is constructed of wild, unsubstantiated assumptions, strung together one after the other.

There's no part of this that resonates with my experience of the world, nor with the apparent fact pattern of the end of prohibition in places where prohibition has been materially ended.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#124

Post by pbhjpbhj »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #39
wfunction wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "dangerous" I meant in the typical, colloquial sense (e.g. more likely to kill you in a shorter amount of time or what have you)...

I think you've taken in too much drug war propaganda. Heroin, if unadulterated, is incredibly safe. There are virtually no long-term health effects, and most overdoses/deaths are caused by it being unknown quality or cut with dangerous substances.[1] The only reason it's dangerous is prohibition [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin#Adverse_effects

So heroin isn't clinically addictive and one can't overdose on it?

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#125

Post by jMyles »

jfmfhhdkdkd wrote: post #77
Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

And yet, there are plenty of Asian countries (Singapore, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, etc) where drug laws are much stricter than the US's, there are very few drug addicts, and there is very little crime.

> there are very few drug addicts

This is a dubious claim. How do you actually identify the number of people who are addicted? Even if there are fewer people addicted to the very few currently illegal drugs, are there fewer people addicted altogether?

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#127

Post by pbhjpbhj »

bdavisx wrote: post #112
melling wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians do whatever gets them, and keeps them, elected. If they poll and find 70% of their electorate are in favor of something, guess how they're going to vote? I really don't understand why people put themselves in echo chambers then complain to each other why the world is the way it is. It's a waste of time.

Actually, that's not true. In Florida a year or two ago, ~58% voted to legalize medical marijuana, but the vote needed 60% because it was a ballot initiative. How come the Florida reps didn't go ahead and do it themselves since obviously a majority of their electorate voted that way? It's about a lot more than the electorate.

58% of the population or of the voters in that poll?

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#128

Post by adrusi »

anon4 wrote: post #76
tomp wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stuff like Heroin and Meth don't legalize private sales but let drug counsellors hand it out to addicts to kill the illegal market, prevent them being harmed by contaminated drugs and stop them breaking and nicking stuff. That's the worst of both worlds. What will happen is a lot of people will become "addicts", get the drug (legally), then sell it to drug dealers to cash out. Criminals will keep their profits high…

Who will the drug dealers sell it to?

The people who aren't dependent and don't qualify for government provided dope. And there could be a lot of such people: imagine how much less risky a heroin habit sounds when you know that as as an addict you can get free clean drugs reliably, and that it will always be in front of a drug expert.

And it is less risky. I'd support a system that gives I'd more junkies of the junkies aren't destroying their health, aren't stealing, have jobs.

But of you're only allowing heroin use for dependent users in a clinic, you won't destroy the black market. There are still people developing new heroin addictions in Switzerland. And not only new users will use the black market to get heroin. Anyone who wants to use it in their own home, anyone who wants to keep their use secret will have no other choice.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#129

Post by _yosefk »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

My favorite conspiracy theory regarding drug legalization is, "the rich" will want to legalize drugs to get rid of "the poor" on the theory that people who've been put out of work by machines are an unnecessary burden, and that widespread use of drugs among such people is a good way to reduce their numbers.

(I don't quite "believe" this theory in the sense of imagining a bunch of rich people sitting in a room, conspiring about this and cackling evilly. I "believe" in this more in the sense of, I think drugs are very bad for you on average and they certainly are the #1 cause of untimely death among the people I've personally known, and I think that the kind of people making policy decisions will not be that upset if large numbers of poorer people are very adversely affected by legalization, any more than they are upset by the adverse effects of draconian prohibition measures.)

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#130

Post by [deleted] »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

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