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Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

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Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#111

Post by ZeroGravitas »

jfmfhhdkdkd wrote: post #90
jfmfhhdkdkd wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, there are plenty of Asian countries (Singapore, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, etc) where drug laws are much stricter than the US's, there are very few drug addicts, and there is very little crime.

I really find it absurd that stating facts is downvoted here on HN because it doesn't fit the hivemind. Singapore and Indonesia execute drug offenders and despite what I am told should happen in this thread, there is very little crime despite their crazier "War on Drugs". When compared to a country like Portugal, Singapore and Indonesia have far lower crime and drug use.

"Studies have consistently failed to establish the existence of a link between the harshness of a country's drug laws and its levels of drug use."

Quote from the article we're discussing.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#112

Post by bdavisx »

melling wrote: post #78
Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

Politicians do whatever gets them, and keeps them, elected. If they poll and find 70% of their electorate are in favor of something, guess how they're going to vote? I really don't understand why people put themselves in echo chambers then complain to each other why the world is the way it is. It's a waste of time.

Actually, that's not true. In Florida a year or two ago, ~58% voted to legalize medical marijuana, but the vote needed 60% because it was a ballot initiative. How come the Florida reps didn't go ahead and do it themselves since obviously a majority of their electorate voted that way? It's about a lot more than the electorate.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#113

Post by cr1895 »

jfmfhhdkdkd wrote: post #96
jdietrich wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal decriminalised personal possession of drugs 15 years ago, which has given us some useful evidence. HIV infection rates and drug-related deaths have reduced significantly, and the prison population has reduced by over 50%. The proportion of people who have ever used drugs has increased slightly, but there has been a reduction in the number of regular drug users. We don't really know what would happen in a lai…

But Japan and Hong Kong and many others still have far lower drug use and crime rates despite their very tough laws on drug use, when compared to Portugal.

Japan and Hong Kong are culturally very different from Portugal, which makes comparison to Portugal difficult.

Something interesting to consider is alcohol use in Japan vs. elsewhere: http://www.cmaj.ca/content/167/4/388.1.full

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#114

Post by pbhjpbhj »

jdietrich wrote: post #105
jfmfhhdkdkd wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really find it absurd that stating facts is downvoted here on HN because it doesn't fit the hivemind. Singapore and Indonesia execute drug offenders and despite what I am told should happen in this thread, there is very little crime despite their crazier "War on Drugs". When compared to a country like Portugal, Singapore and Indonesia have far lower crime and drug use.

Execution is a very drastic drug-related harm. If we killed everyone at age 50 then cancer rates would fall drastically, but it would be completely unreasonable to suggest that we had effectively solved the cancer problem. It is worth noting that Indonesia have changed their drug policies in recent years and are moving towards a medicalised rather than criminalised approach to drug use, largely as a response to risin…

So in these countries is the number of executions per million population higher than the deaths in the USA, say, directly attributed to drug sale/use?

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#115

Post by gbog »

jfmfhhdkdkd wrote: post #96
jdietrich wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portugal decriminalised personal possession of drugs 15 years ago, which has given us some useful evidence. HIV infection rates and drug-related deaths have reduced significantly, and the prison population has reduced by over 50%. The proportion of people who have ever used drugs has increased slightly, but there has been a reduction in the number of regular drug users. We don't really know what would happen in a lai…

But Japan and Hong Kong and many others still have far lower drug use and crime rates despite their very tough laws on drug use, when compared to Portugal.

China, too, have a far lower drug use rate. Not sure for Japan and Hk, but for China I think there are two main reasons. One, she was "locked in turmoil" during the 70s and the 80s, so did not get the influence from this period. Two, most young people are busy making their life, and have actually good hope to have a much better life than their parents (which is not that difficult).

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#116

Post by agumonkey »

puranjay wrote: post #66
Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

I always wonder what would happen to drug use if it was widely and easily available. Would usage drop because it wouldn't be "rebellious" to get drugs? That was at least the motivation for a lot of younger drug users I know. In my country (India), there is a region in the Himalayas - Kasaul - where marijuana grows in the wild. It is so easily accessible that you can literally pluck some on a walk through the forest.…

I believe so, I believe most kids are doing it because it's taboo and feels something adventurous to experience.

Now legalizing drugs would also give standards and tests. Instead of potentially toxic you'd get something tested (you may get shitty product still but the producer will get busted and closed easily).

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#117

Post by jMyles »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #41

The drug problem was studied years ago by the RAND corporation and the US Military - a pure cost-benefit analysis. They found that treatment and education are the most cost effective way to deal with the drug problem, and that prohibition was the most costly and ineffective means of dealing with it. Therefore the government understands that the war on drugs is likely to be unsuccessful, and we have to ask ourselves,…

> This is not a conspiracy

It is absolutely a conspiracy, just one that happens to actually have occurred and probably continues to occur.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#118

Post by soylentcola »

furyg3 wrote: post #93
puranjay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder what would happen to drug use if it was widely and easily available. Would usage drop because it wouldn't be "rebellious" to get drugs? That was at least the motivation for a lot of younger drug users I know. In my country (India), there is a region in the Himalayas - Kasaul - where marijuana grows in the wild. It is so easily accessible that you can literally pluck some on a walk through the forest.…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cannabis_use_by_country In the Netherlands, where marijuana is effectively legal†, the percentage of the population aged 15-64 which has used the drug at least once in the past year was 5.4 (2005). In the US the data was from 2009 (pre-legalization in Oregon and Colorado), and was 13.7% Anecdata: I've lived in both places, weed just isn't as cool in NL as it is in the US. † Use of…

When I was quite a bit younger and did a semester abroad (from the US) I became friends with several Dutch students in our dorm/hostel. I remember, being the naive 19-year-old that I was, asking how cool it was that weed was legal there and stuff like that. They mostly looked at me with a tolerant but exhausted expression and said that it was more of a tourist thing. The impression I got was that it was treated by everyone the way I now look at teens who constantly talk about smoking cannabis or getting drunk as if it was the coolest thing ever. Basically it was like "yeah, sure, it's legal but come on, only dipshits make it out to be something more than a minor vice or guilty pleasure to be indulged infrequently".

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#119

Post by cr1895 »

furyg3 wrote: post #93
puranjay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder what would happen to drug use if it was widely and easily available. Would usage drop because it wouldn't be "rebellious" to get drugs? That was at least the motivation for a lot of younger drug users I know. In my country (India), there is a region in the Himalayas - Kasaul - where marijuana grows in the wild. It is so easily accessible that you can literally pluck some on a walk through the forest.…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_cannabis_use_by_country In the Netherlands, where marijuana is effectively legal†, the percentage of the population aged 15-64 which has used the drug at least once in the past year was 5.4 (2005). In the US the data was from 2009 (pre-legalization in Oregon and Colorado), and was 13.7% Anecdata: I've lived in both places, weed just isn't as cool in NL as it is in the US. † Use of…

Worth noting that the government in the NL is working quite hard to make it less tolerated, e.g. shuttering coffeeshops through legitimate grievances such as selling to minors or through "neighborhood improvement" or "too near a school" reasons and by criminalizing the aiding of production (taken to absurd levels such that innocent garden supply shops can be criminally liable). Production has already been and remains illegal, and the government has rejected calls by various cities to experiment with sanctioned growing.

It's quite an absurd situation, honestly.

Re: Kofi Annan on Why It's Time to Legalize Drugs

#120

Post by [deleted] »

analog31 wrote: post #102
puranjay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder what would happen to drug use if it was widely and easily available. Would usage drop because it wouldn't be "rebellious" to get drugs? That was at least the motivation for a lot of younger drug users I know. In my country (India), there is a region in the Himalayas - Kasaul - where marijuana grows in the wild. It is so easily accessible that you can literally pluck some on a walk through the forest.…

In the US culture, I think a lot would depend on marketing and advertising. Consider the marketing of high fructose corn syrup, which is cheap, legal, hardly "rebellious," possibly a sort of low-grade high, and consumed in toxic quantities. I'm not arguing against legalization. But I had a similar conversation with my kids about legalizing pot. I told them that whatever the health aspects of pot use are, the pot indu…

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