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TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

truepublica.org.uk

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Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#201

Post by TheLogothete »

Silhouette wrote: post #193
TheLogothete wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can every country's MPs change the agreement? How does this work in practice? Have you thought this through?

Individually they can't, of course, but consulting them as a group is reasonable for something you expect every country to implement. Without the backing of the elected national government, you have no democratic mandate to change national laws or update national policies to reflect your international agreement. One reasonable process might be having each country send their appointed representatives to negotiate init…

And how do you think every country came up with their agendas for the negotiations?

Are you absolutely sure that you know how the current process works? Or you just read some articles here and there and concocted the story in your head?

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#203

Post by Silhouette »

TheLogothete wrote: post #201
Silhouette wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individually they can't, of course, but consulting them as a group is reasonable for something you expect every country to implement. Without the backing of the elected national government, you have no democratic mandate to change national laws or update national policies to reflect your international agreement. One reasonable process might be having each country send their appointed representatives to negotiate init…

And how do you think every country came up with their agendas for the negotiations? Are you absolutely sure that you know how the current process works? Or you just read some articles here and there and concocted the story in your head?

And how do you think every country came up with their agendas for the negotiations?

I don't know, and I don't think you do either, because it was done in secret with no open, democratic debate. You can tell this from the fact that many elected representatives who participate in the normal democratic processes are among those complaining about a lack of access.

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#204

Post by mason240 »

Silhouette wrote: post #188
mason240 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is untrue. A businesses in foreign countries CAN sue a national governments if pass protectionist regulations that favor domestic businesses. For example: The US can pass environmental regulations blocking all logging on Federally owned land. They can not pass regulations that only allow US-based companies to log on Federally owned land. If they did, then foreign companies could sue for being excluded. >It's impos…

It is untrue. As I have consistently said, that may be the case. But the fact is that I don't know that for sure, and unless you're both one of a very select group and violating an explicit confidentiality agreement by posting here, neither do you.

>As I have consistently said, that may be the case.

Just like it may be the case that the moon landings were faked.

>unless you're both one of a very select group and violating an explicit confidentiality agreement by posting here, neither do you.

The full text of TIPP has been released for months now. I know because I have read factual reporting from journalists who have actually read the text, not from ignorant FUD spreaders in website comment sections.

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#205

Post by [deleted] »

Silhouette wrote: post #188
mason240 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is untrue. A businesses in foreign countries CAN sue a national governments if pass protectionist regulations that favor domestic businesses. For example: The US can pass environmental regulations blocking all logging on Federally owned land. They can not pass regulations that only allow US-based companies to log on Federally owned land. If they did, then foreign companies could sue for being excluded. >It's impos…

It is untrue. As I have consistently said, that may be the case. But the fact is that I don't know that for sure, and unless you're both one of a very select group and violating an explicit confidentiality agreement by posting here, neither do you.

[deleted]

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#206

Post by sdoering »

TheLogothete wrote: post #200
sdoering wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I do not see, why corporations then get an early say in the "negotiations" when the people are not able to do so via their elected representatives. Because, as you can clearly see, my representative might have the right to read some of it, but he has no right to alter the "negotiations". The people negotiating on my behalf are so far removed from my actual vote, that I could not possible call this democratic. So…

I say there is enough time, you say there isn't. What is left to say?

Wow. What an elaborate argument. How grown up. Someone could label your statement as a kille phrase.

I now see how you do "discourse" and can understand why you do not fear TTIP "discourse". As yours and the so called "discourse" are equally non existent and on the same level.

Please. I beg you to refrain from an answer, as I write this just for the afterworld. I do not try to feed you, the troll.

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#207

Post by TheLogothete »

sdoering wrote: post #206
TheLogothete wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say there is enough time, you say there isn't. What is left to say?

Wow. What an elaborate argument. How grown up. Someone could label your statement as a kille phrase. I now see how you do "discourse" and can understand why you do not fear TTIP "discourse". As yours and the so called "discourse" are equally non existent and on the same level. Please. I beg you to refrain from an answer, as I write this just for the afterworld. I do not try to feed you, the troll.

It is pretty ignorant to label someone as troll because you do not agree with him.

And just FYI, this style of "discourse" is exactly the reason why TTIP negotiations should not be made public. A politician can rip apart through all the logic here and the public will eat it up.

Re: TTIP Enters New and Dangerous Stage as Democracy Is Dismantled in Secret

#208

Post by josephlord »

deif wrote: post #27
awjr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe TTIP is being pushed by the UK government and resisted by countries in Europe.

Wrong. UKIP and Labour hold the majority seats for the UK in the EUP and they're both against TTIP.

But the Commission largely works on behalf of the Council of Ministers where the UK Government (Conservative) have the vote. Also if the UK leaves Europe the UK could sign up all on its own (although possibly on even worse terms).
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