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Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

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Re: Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

#101

Post by wvenable »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #10

My current primary business is IT consulting, which really means that I spend most of my time working face-to-face with people that have trouble with computers and technology in general. So, this kind of behavior isn't news to me. In fact, I've tried often to convince the tech-savvy that most users have problems like this, and I've never been all that successful. The RWW "Facebook login" is great from this standpoint…

> When a computer puts an error up on the screen

The funny thing is, you can turn most people away from the computer and read the error message verbatim (or any other dialog) and they'll be able to answer you. It's merely the fact that it's displayed on the computer that confuses/scares them. Once they've answered you (say "Yes, I want to cancel") you can turn them back to the computer and they'll still have trouble picking the right button.

There is some kind of mental block here -- but I believe that most people can get past it if they're forced to interact with computers. I rarely just click on a dialog for people -- I make them read it. I make them think about it. I make them pick the right button -- over and over. Eventually they gain more confidence and can do it themselves. And slowly they do begin to "get" computers. Dropping someone into facebook without them having the confidence is probably never going to work. But smart people don't have to be dumb with computers.

Re: Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

#102

Post by ericd »

That comment thread is making me sick to my stomach. I didn't understand the true extent of the power that Google wields until now. People will apparently go wherever is first...

Then again, the bottom 1% of 300 million users is still a huge number of users, so maybe this isn't as bleak as it seems.

Re: Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

#103

Post by Groxx »

madair wrote: post #72
Groxx wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did just admit it. Many of the worst-behavers I've encountered act similarly or worse on the internet, and the reverse has been quite accurate for the few I've encountered in that manner. It's certainly prejudice, but that doesn't make it wholly (or even mostly) invalid. Prejudices have a prejudiced opinion applied to them. That snarling dog? It may not bite you, but it's rational to be prejudiced towards believing…

There is nothing good about this at all, this is class warfare and culture warfare all wrapped up together, both very bad and both ripping America, among other places, apart right about....now. You have absolutely no clue about this person and yet you are prejudiced against him, her, it. Is he/she/it 10 years old? You have no clue. You don't know background, you know nothing except that this person just feels that th…

The loss of all social filters is social anarchy. If you're an anarchist, then this likely appeals to you, but I'm not. We certainly have too many social filters, but having none enables malicious people to gain incredible power.

Projections based on limited information are innate to not only humans, but learning in general. Sea cucumbers learn. This easily extends to projections of human behavior based on limited information, but some people view this as universally bad. Evidently, you are one of them. Enjoy your viewpoint.

Re: Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

#104

Post by Groxx »

Perceval wrote: post #82
Groxx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...most of these are good people, and many of them have accomplished more in their lives than many of the denigrating commenters ever will. While true, I'll still be prejudiced against people that leave comments like (#14): wtf is this bullshttttttttttt all about. can i get n plzzzzzzzzz and I'll actively argue that many who spell and act this poorly in public are probably at least as much of a detriment to society a…

Some folks have put together a comment filter that flags any comments that are 'formally' stupid in the same way that #14 is: http://stupidfilter.org/main/

I really like the project's idea, but it's sadly pretty inaccurate from my tests (unless it's progressed significantly since I last saw it). Definitely worth a laugh, though :)

Re: Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

#105

Post by epochwolf »

necubi wrote: post #89
thaumaturgy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As my Cordon-Bleu trained chef friend likes to say, Stuff That Comes In A Box Is Not Cooking! Are you really that positive that there is no subject which is so baffling to you that you wouldn't even attempt to diagnose something related to it? 'Cause I've met plenty of programmery-types that don't know a fuel pump from an alternator, and when their car breaks down, they're as stuck as everyone else. You're ignoring t…

Cars are, as usual, a really poor analogy. It's true I have absolutely no idea how to fix a car if it breaks down; however, fixing cars is a highly specialized skill (especially these days) and requires expensive equipment. Companies like Facebook, meanwhile, spend millions of dollars on usability testing so that their websites and applications are easy to use, and there is the expectation that anybody _can_ use them…

Companies like Facebook, meanwhile, spend millions of dollars on usability testing...

Which goes to show throwing money at a problem isn't a good way to fix it.

Re: Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

#106

Post by fragmede »

marilyn wrote: post #84
thaumaturgy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't Google's fault. In Firefox, if you type a non-address directly into the address bar, it automagically directs you to the top Google hit for that query. The real failure here is Mozilla, for releasing a "feature" that, as usual, appeals to computer power users, and royally fucks over computer novices.

I highly doubt that the majority of these users are using Firefox. More likely they are using the default browser available on their operating system.

I thought about that too... but I'm rather sure that 'operating system default browser' is going to be Internet Explorer, and uh, Google's not the default there.

Re: Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

#107

Post by fragmede »

nfnaaron wrote: post #91
fragmede wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a terrible cook, but if I was baking a cake, and used laundry detergent instead of flour (I mean, they're both white and powdery...) I'd absolutely deserve any comments about my (lack-of) intelligence. The "News results for facebook login" section on Google is very clearly marked, with, umm, well theres a picture, and a bit of indentation? In this case, I must lay some blame on Google for putting laundry detergen…

May I assume for sake of argument that by "deserve any comments" and "lack of intelligence" that you're including comments similar to those made by the leets against the facebook confused? Why is this OK? Why is it OK to laugh at and discriminate against less intelligent people? What have less intelligent people failed to do, that would have made them more intelligent, that makes them deserve to be looked down on? Is…

Arguable, the proper attitude to take is the aphorism "if you don't having anything nice to say..." and the golden "do unto others...."

For the record, I don't think it /is/ actually any different, just that it's more socially acceptable.

Re: Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

#108

Post by epochwolf »

Perceval wrote: post #82
Groxx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...most of these are good people, and many of them have accomplished more in their lives than many of the denigrating commenters ever will. While true, I'll still be prejudiced against people that leave comments like (#14): wtf is this bullshttttttttttt all about. can i get n plzzzzzzzzz and I'll actively argue that many who spell and act this poorly in public are probably at least as much of a detriment to society a…

Some folks have put together a comment filter that flags any comments that are 'formally' stupid in the same way that #14 is: http://stupidfilter.org/main/

I've found it seems to work fairly well until give it any text with formatting (markdown, bbcode, etc) at it. It seems to throw it's hands in the air and cry stupid.

Re: Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

#109

Post by epochwolf »

GHFigs wrote: post #87
Groxx wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is certainly valid. But one would think that this magic box that holds all your financial data, (for many) all your work, and is used to get an enormous amount of your amusement would be worth understanding in even a rudimentary way. Especially since being completely ignorant of safe practices is catastrophically dangerous. People learn how to use their cars for just such a reason, and they spend less time in t…

I contend that branding people as intentionally ignorant is an excuse for your own laziness. You're always going to be able to dismiss part of the problem as "too hard" to bother addressing, that way. I used to feel that way myself. It's convenient, but it's also not true. The truth is that people are learning constantly whether they want to or not. It's what humans do . We take input from the world and turn it into…

I've never thought of it from this viewpoint before. It explains the irrational "ignorance" people seem to display.

Re: Daring Fireball: "Facebook login"

#110

Post by pyre »

ubernostrum wrote: post #75
pyre wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, but people also have to fail at understanding the bookmarking functionality of browsers as well. You don't have to understand the location/address bar to understand that you can bookmark a page to come back to it.

Charles Miller today commented on this: http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2010/02/12/two_steps_forward_tw... And mentioned his own anecdote: http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2003/10/09/the_internet_and_und... Choice quote: URLs. Bookmarks. Changing your homepage. All of these things were voodoo. As he points out, claims that people are more "savvy" today than they were then probably don't hold up; if anything, users back then…

My comment wasn't the people should know about the bookmarking system, just that the concept of the bookmarking system is less complex to people than the concept of URLs and the location/address bar.
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