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The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

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Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#151

Post by ZeroGravitas »

clock_tower wrote: post #125
sanderjd wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but anecdotally, as someone who spends a lot of face-to-face time around people on both sides of the typical left-right division, neither of which represent my views, it is very frustrating for me, and I suspect rather pointless for them. I've never left a political conversation like this feeling like I made a dent in anyone's ideology; they just leave thinking I'm a weirdo.

I think the same, and I'd go a step further. I don't particularly _want_ to get along with people who have no problem with abortion, nor with people who have no problem with torture. Why should I see being de-polarizing as something desirable? (And where can I move to?)

I'm not sure how many people have "no problem" with either abortion or torture. The people who support them after having thought about it generally do so because they see the alternative as worse, similar to people who want to see hard drugs legalized to ensure people don't have to deal with black markets, criminal gangs, and dangerous substitute chemicals.

(disclosure: I'd ban torture, but for both abortion and most drugs I'd legalise them and try via other methods to reduce the amount that actually occured e.g. better sex-ed and provision of contraception, or better addiction treatment and channeling people towards less harmful (though still currently illegal) drugs.

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#152

Post by oh_sigh »

kordless wrote: post #108
alistproducer2 wrote: post #48

IMO, A large part of the problem is people of different political views don't talk, face to face, enough. Like in war, it's easier to kill a "gook" or "haji" than a person. The Internet makes it easy to dehumanize the other side; they're just avatars and words on your screen. It's a lot harder to hate an actual person, especially just for having a different opinion than you. [Edited]

As crazy as it sounds (by definition), there's a hypothesis that we get infected with viruses of the mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viruses_of_the_Mind There's also a video explaining it in terms of funny cat video production: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

See also: Snowcrash

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#153

Post by kbutler »

tomjen3 wrote: post #107
tat45 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from personal experience only, I work with people who are on the other side of the fence from me politically. We manage to have conversations on political matters without it boiling over into contempt and dislike. Probably the fact that it is a workplace and we all want to keep our jobs serves to keep a lid on it. I find it far easier to depersonalize someone who I don't see in the flesh on a daily basis.

Are you sure about the contempt and dislike? When I hear somebody say something stupid at work I won't necessarily say anything, or say what I think, but I will change my like/dislike of that person.

Like, for instance, if they make a comment that sounds like anyone who disagrees with them politically is stupid?

If your only interaction with them is the disagreement, it's far easier to assume they "are stupid" rather than just "have a different opinion."

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#154

Post by yompers888 »

norea-armozel wrote: post #150

I can't blame the author to trying to focus on the best aspects of how to reach across the political spectrum (even within the same party), but I'll be honest and say that some ideas/positions are fundamentally incompatible with a liberal society. For example, the current crop of social conservatism to seem to be dead set on putting inspectors at the entrances of public restrooms because of pseudo-fears over transgen…

>Clearly, it's not about protecting children, women, and the elderly. It's about shaming a minority into submission since we've been making gains in terms of the national discussion.

It would be fruitless for me to speculate on the particular aversion you mention to transsexuals, but in general you'll gain a better understanding by looking for a motivation other than malice; that's seldom the explanation. The real rationale may be short-sighted, ignorant, wildly unfair, and unlikely to be advanced by the outlandish actions taken, but nonetheless there is some underlying thought process, and most people care far too much about themselves to go out significantly out of their ways to deliberately do harm to others.

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#155

Post by clock_tower »

sanderjd wrote: post #132
clock_tower wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the same, and I'd go a step further. I don't particularly _want_ to get along with people who have no problem with abortion, nor with people who have no problem with torture. Why should I see being de-polarizing as something desirable? (And where can I move to?)

I think the article makes lots of good arguments for why being de-polarizing is a desirable thing, so I'm not going to attempt to make better ones. But I think your comment is a really good example in and of itself. You've done the binary thinking thing that the article discussed in detail! I've never met anyone who has no problem with abortion, or anyone who has no problem with torture, but I've met people who think…

In the case of abortion, I'll grudgingly admit that reasonable people can differ, at least in cases of rape or incest; in life-of-the-mother cases (pregnancy in the Fallopian tube), the other side might even be right.

But on torture? I'm not willing to make any concession to people who think that hanging a Japanese general for waterboarding US soldiers is fine, while leaving a US president entirely unpunished for waterboarding actual and suspected terrorists is not fine. Either we owe the Axis (and especially that general's heirs) some enormous apologies, or we need a few trials of a certain past political administration.

I tend be a fan of bright lines in general. If you don't know that some things are wrong (and, therefore, that any line of reasoning that leads to them has a problem with it somewhere), how do you know when you've gone astray?

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#156

Post by specialist »

bryondowd wrote: post #126
specialist wrote: post #97

The increasing political divide in the US is the direct result of ever more aggressive gerrymandering. Jurisdictions are becoming ever more partisan. So now only the most partisan (divisive) candidates can win their primary election, which then pretty much makes the general election moot. The fix is California style redistricting, where citizens and not politicians are in charge of the process.

Not familiar with 'California style redistricting' and I'm curious. Have a short explanation or a link?

Sure thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Citizens_Redistrict...

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#157

Post by vitd »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #79
emodendroket wrote: post #42

I find the idea that the current level of polarization is unprecedented kind of questionable. McCarthyist purges? The violence of the Reconstruction era, which followed a literal Civil War? Compared to that people calling each other mean names seems like small potatoes.

You seemed to forget some of these gems: - The collapse of race relations. Everybody thought a black president would do wonders for the issues of race in this country, it's done just the opposite. - Several ongoing wars with seemingly no end in sight. - The illegal immigration ahem "undocumented workers" (for you PC types) issue. 42 million strong at this point and no signs of slowing down. This is quickly approachin…

>- The collapse of race relations. Everybody thought a black president would do wonders for the issues of race in this country, it's done just the opposite.

I don't understand what you mean. Today we're actually starting to have conversations about race and how the establishment treats people of different races instead of not even addressing the issue. It's being talked about not as a serious issue rather than some fringe thing that most people don't care about.

I feel like progress was made during the civil rights era, then things stagnated for 40-50 years, and now we're having conversations again. It sounds to me like a black president or perhaps other things going on have done wonders for issues of race in the country. It hasn't solved the problems yet, but it's sure brought them front and center and helped given them the attention they actually deserve instead of letting them get swept under the rug.

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#158

Post by markc »

mystikal wrote: post #14
_archon_ wrote: post #12

This is an interesting article, and I think there could be a point made that wasn't expressed. I propose that someone who embodies these methods may be much more likely to have others judge them to have intellectual integrity. That was an awkward sentence. I further propose that this acknowledgement is an important aspect of having even highly polarized people have a worthwhile conversation.

In my experience, because they only see in black and white, polarized people see anybody that isn't polarized as belonging to the other pole. It gets boring after a while.

So true. Half of my facebook friends think I'm a flaming liberal. The other half think I'm a flaming conservative. This is because I dare to challenge their silly meme posters that lie about and defame the "opposition". They don't seem to notice that I challenge the BS on both sides. They only know that correcting falsehoods that align with their pet belief is proof you're in the enemy camp.

Likewise, they think it's impossible to concede any point made by the enemy, no matter how obviously true, without being entirely aligned with them.

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#159

Post by rajacombinator »

jessaustin wrote: post #61
emodendroket wrote: post #42

I find the idea that the current level of polarization is unprecedented kind of questionable. McCarthyist purges? The violence of the Reconstruction era, which followed a literal Civil War? Compared to that people calling each other mean names seems like small potatoes.

Those historical disagreements were about something. So much of the current sound and fury is just the marketing department of the status quo attempting to convince us that there's a debate going on at all. On a giant polo field of political possibility, the Bushes and Clintons fight furiously over a tiny postage stamp of "acceptable" policies. Anyone venturing outside that is just cra aaa azy! It sort of backfired o…

I generally agree with your blame TPTB first mindset, but in this case I think they underestimated Trump. Although he's not a deep policy thinker and historically has been indistinguishable from any other trendy NYC lib, he has two distinguishing traits. First, his massive ego, second, he's a violently pro-American nationalist, moreso than anyone in the past 50 years. That presents a major challenge for the globalist TPTB's current dialog - even his rhetoric is disruptive to their worldwide agenda. Maybe you're right and this is a cleverly planned dialectical antithesis that will be used to sneak in more Patriot Act style moves, but I think there's a genuine chance things have gone off script.

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#160

Post by [deleted] »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #48

IMO, A large part of the problem is people of different political views don't talk, face to face, enough. Like in war, it's easier to kill a "gook" or "haji" than a person. The Internet makes it easy to dehumanize the other side; they're just avatars and words on your screen. It's a lot harder to hate an actual person, especially just for having a different opinion than you. [Edited]

[deleted]
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