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The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

the-american-interest.com

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Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#61

Post by jessaustin »

emodendroket wrote: post #42

I find the idea that the current level of polarization is unprecedented kind of questionable. McCarthyist purges? The violence of the Reconstruction era, which followed a literal Civil War? Compared to that people calling each other mean names seems like small potatoes.

Those historical disagreements were about something. So much of the current sound and fury is just the marketing department of the status quo attempting to convince us that there's a debate going on at all. On a giant polo field of political possibility, the Bushes and Clintons fight furiously over a tiny postage stamp of "acceptable" policies. Anyone venturing outside that is just craaaaazy!

It sort of backfired on TPTB this time around, however. Not only did they get annoying one-step-beyond-the-pale "alternatives" like Cruz, they also got legitimately different directions like Sanders and Paul. TPTB had wisely saved the easily-controlled pseudo-alternative Trump for this election, though, so he's been able to take the wind out of those sails. His two terms will be like a rerun of W's (or, frankly, O's). In eight years, though, to whom will they turn? There's no way Hillary will be able to stomach "standing by her man" for that much longer. Christie is just too fat. If you want to see the next fake-alternative president before anyone else does, keep watching those reality shows!

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#62

Post by gyardley »

ultramancool wrote: post #9

I closed this almost immediately because of the giant yellow "this is your free article for this month" banner on the top. Get your shit together web designers, I don't need something blaring so everyone in the office sees that it's my free article.

Right click, delete element.

Almost as fast as closing the page, and you're no longer letting crap web designers dictate what you read and what you don't.

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#64

Post by ultramancool »

gyardley wrote: post #62
ultramancool wrote: post #9

I closed this almost immediately because of the giant yellow "this is your free article for this month" banner on the top. Get your shit together web designers, I don't need something blaring so everyone in the office sees that it's my free article.

Right click, delete element. Almost as fast as closing the page, and you're no longer letting crap web designers dictate what you read and what you don't.

I have uBlock which I'd reach for sooner as it'd remove the element permanently, however I don't want to support websites like this at all, even with just my readership. There are plenty of other places I can read similar articles. I have no interest in reading junk and these sorts of things are a good indicator of junk in my experience.

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#65

Post by tat45 »

wolfgke wrote: post #59
alistproducer2 wrote: post #48

IMO, A large part of the problem is people of different political views don't talk, face to face, enough. Like in war, it's easier to kill a "gook" or "haji" than a person. The Internet makes it easy to dehumanize the other side; they're just avatars and words on your screen. It's a lot harder to hate an actual person, especially just for having a different opinion than you. [Edited]

Couldn't it be that it is much better that persons of very different political views don't talk so much, face to face? I can imagine quite well that this would easily in yelling at each other etc. Also at least me I even get more hate to views someone says if I talk to him/her personally than when I only have to see his/her arguments in the internet. In other words: That people of very different views don't talk much…

Speaking from personal experience only, I work with people who are on the other side of the fence from me politically. We manage to have conversations on political matters without it boiling over into contempt and dislike. Probably the fact that it is a workplace and we all want to keep our jobs serves to keep a lid on it.

I find it far easier to depersonalize someone who I don't see in the flesh on a daily basis.

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#66

Post by RobertoG »

brightball wrote: post #44
RobertoG wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not without its dangers. Doublethink: "The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the whil…

Opposed ideas doesn't necessarily mean conflicting ideas. For example, it's possible to appreciate that in the US people need some means of getting an education in order to get a job while at the same time realizing the demand for quality education far outstrips supply, which when paired with federal loans inflates the cost of education so much that it puts it farther out of reach for people. That's a problem with a…

I think we use different definitions of "opposed ideas".

To keep two opposed ideas in mind should be done with the aim of solving contradictions.

If you can distill a better abstraction you are solving the contradiction and you finish with only one idea.

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#67

Post by wolfgke »

mfoy_ wrote: post #51
brightball wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opposed ideas doesn't necessarily mean conflicting ideas. For example, it's possible to appreciate that in the US people need some means of getting an education in order to get a job while at the same time realizing the demand for quality education far outstrips supply, which when paired with federal loans inflates the cost of education so much that it puts it farther out of reach for people. That's a problem with a…

To add to your point, holding opposing ideas in your mind doesn't mean you accept both ideas as correct and valid and good (as in the Orwell quote). It just means that you can appreciate them and understand some of the points they try to make. The issue with polarized politics is that it encourages one-mindedness. Instead of trying to understand where your political opponents are coming from, you are encouraged to re…

> To add to your point, holding opposing ideas in your mind doesn't mean you accept both ideas as correct and valid and good (as in the Orwell quote). It just means that you can appreciate them and understand some of the points they try to make.

If two theses conflict each other at least one of them (perhaps even both) must be wrong. That is basic science. This is also why physicists still try to unify general relativity and quantum physics. So instead of accepting multiple ideas use your mind to

1. create predictions that each of the conflicting theses imply, such that the two theses will do different predictions, which if they can't be observed will convince you that the thesis was wrong.

2. develop an experiment with which you can observe these predictions

3. execute the experiment

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#68

Post by RobertoG »

ikurei wrote: post #43
RobertoG wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not without its dangers. Doublethink: "The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the whil…

Could awareness of the tension between the two be the difference between doublethink and intelligence, as defined by GP? I love the irony in following the first quote by holding both quotes in my mind, and considering that there is some wisdom to both.

I think you are right. I think both quotes speak about the same.

The GP is talking about the ability to think and find the truth, Orwell is talking about using the same skill to lie (to oneself and the others).

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#69

Post by tat45 »

pessimizer wrote: post #30
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #6

well, first off it says that people distrust people of opposite political parties more than of different races like that's a bad thing ( distrusting people because of their beliefs instead of their race seems an improvement to me), furthermore has this data been adjusted for political affiliation and race - do white Republicans, for example, really distrust white Democrats more than they distrust people of other race…

It's worth quoting because it is so weird: "[...]Americans today are less friendly to people in the other political party than we are to people of a different race. The researchers conclude that 'Americans increasingly dislike people and groups on the other side of the political divide and face no social repercussions for the open expression of these attitudes.' As a result, today 'the level of partisan animus in the…

I took it as a statement of a fact, followed by a statement of astonishment at that fact.

Re: The Seven Habits of Highly Depolarizing People

#70

Post by alistproducer2 »

wolfgke wrote: post #59
alistproducer2 wrote: post #48

IMO, A large part of the problem is people of different political views don't talk, face to face, enough. Like in war, it's easier to kill a "gook" or "haji" than a person. The Internet makes it easy to dehumanize the other side; they're just avatars and words on your screen. It's a lot harder to hate an actual person, especially just for having a different opinion than you. [Edited]

Couldn't it be that it is much better that persons of very different political views don't talk so much, face to face? I can imagine quite well that this would easily in yelling at each other etc. Also at least me I even get more hate to views someone says if I talk to him/her personally than when I only have to see his/her arguments in the internet. In other words: That people of very different views don't talk much…

I disagree. People generally have to work themselves up to a place of such strong opinions. This usually happens when people cocoon themselves in echo chambers.

If you spend 4 hours a day on zerohedge or infowars, you will reach a point where differing opinions piss you off to the point of yelling. If, however, you were getting different perspectives from other human beings on a regular basis, you would likely be less fervent in your views.

It's a lot harder to dismiss actual human beings as "libtards" or "rethugs" or whatever pejorative. You might still disagree, but you usually won't outright dismiss them like you would an article with a "heretical" viewpoint relative to your personal echo chamber.

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