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German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

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Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#71

Post by detaro »

mihaifm wrote: post #42

Are our operating systems so vulnerable? Even if we're talking about governments, how is it still possible for someone to 'break' into my computer without me doing anything stupid. How do they plan to install Trojans into my computer?

If it is deployed similar to other observation tools, the "großer Lauschangriff" (= big eavesdropping attack) allows for physical entry and deployment of surveillance equipment. I suspect that until there is a clear precedent saying otherwise they'll use that to deploy software on target computers.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#72

Post by ldehaan »

brakmic wrote: post #15

I doubt they have capable programmers working for them. A few years ago the Chaos Computer Club discovered the 'predecessor' version of this State-Trojan ("Bundestrojaner"). This version was a perfect example what happens when you _want_ to have such a software but your programmers _suck_ at even most basic things (like establishing a working traffic-encryption). Here's the video (in German): https://youtu.be/zAV-hTp…

you should be afraid of This state, when the Germans decide to be complete idiots, they don't hold back.

someone needs to show up at their parliament or whatever they government with, in a nazi uniform, salute the bench, and start yapping about computer security in your best hitter voice.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#74

Post by germanier »

gist wrote: post #67
Xylakant wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany any kind of data collection must be backed by a cause. So automated license plate scanning was illegal since it allows creation of movement profiles by the state, something that is very much frowned upon. Putting fixed cameras up and filming the public is not legal either in Germany - you can't have a surveillance camera pointed to public space, for example filming the boardwalk in front of your house. Whe…

> you can't have a surveillance camera pointed to public space Interesting so a business for example can't have a camera monitoring outside (or inside) the place of business for security purposes? Can they apply for an exemption and is it normally granted?

They can monitor their inside place (if there is a clear sign there) and and also their door from the outside (as long as the public street isn't filmed). Videos have to be deleted quickly and can only be used for theft prevention purposes. Exemptions can't be granted by the government and courts will usually decide against business owners that violate those rules.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#75

Post by detaro »

gist wrote: post #67
Xylakant wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany any kind of data collection must be backed by a cause. So automated license plate scanning was illegal since it allows creation of movement profiles by the state, something that is very much frowned upon. Putting fixed cameras up and filming the public is not legal either in Germany - you can't have a surveillance camera pointed to public space, for example filming the boardwalk in front of your house. Whe…

> you can't have a surveillance camera pointed to public space Interesting so a business for example can't have a camera monitoring outside (or inside) the place of business for security purposes? Can they apply for an exemption and is it normally granted?

You can monitor your own property if you inform properly (post notices, renters have to agree, ...)

> Can they apply for an exemption and is it normally granted?

No. If your camera monitors public space (streets, sidewalk, ...) it either has to be so far in the distance that it can't identify people or cars, or you have to block these parts of the image (either physically, or by blanking those parts of the signal before they are recorded. Many cameras allow to put black boxes over parts of the image in firmware)

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#76

Post by Xylakant »

gist wrote: post #67
Xylakant wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany any kind of data collection must be backed by a cause. So automated license plate scanning was illegal since it allows creation of movement profiles by the state, something that is very much frowned upon. Putting fixed cameras up and filming the public is not legal either in Germany - you can't have a surveillance camera pointed to public space, for example filming the boardwalk in front of your house. Whe…

> you can't have a surveillance camera pointed to public space Interesting so a business for example can't have a camera monitoring outside (or inside) the place of business for security purposes? Can they apply for an exemption and is it normally granted?

Afaik inside is possible but requires signs (and probably you're subject to checks), outside no. You can't even have empty camera bodies pointing to the street.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#77

Post by detaro »

teamhappy wrote: post #38
sanid wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's developed by the Federal Criminal Police Office [0] (german BKA) They also bought another program from FinFisher as a backup that needs to be altered to fit the regulations and stuff. [0] only in German sorry: http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/bundestrojaner-in...

I don't know what "Steigerung der passgenauen Einsatzfähigkeit" means (I speak german; I just don't know what it means), but it sounds like they still need the exploits from FinFisher.

I would translate it freely as "to cover more specific situations", specific exploits sounds like a candidate. Or maybe for different OSes, or against different communication software their own solution can't cover.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#78

Post by ManFromUranus »

Xylakant wrote: post #65
ptaipale wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not just a few years ago, this is an ongoing issue. For instance, a government minister in Hessen tries to ensure that this politician from AfD (in opposition to the ruling CDU/SDP coalition) should not be able to work as a teacher. http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschi...

You're conveniently letting out the part about the racist remarks which are the actual cause. I'm all in favor of not letting racists teach children.

It's fine to be racist and teach children, as long as it's the anti-white brand of racism then nobody will have a problem.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#79

Post by germanier »

detaro wrote: post #75
gist wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't have a surveillance camera pointed to public space Interesting so a business for example can't have a camera monitoring outside (or inside) the place of business for security purposes? Can they apply for an exemption and is it normally granted?

You can monitor your own property if you inform properly (post notices, renters have to agree, ...) > Can they apply for an exemption and is it normally granted? No. If your camera monitors public space (streets, sidewalk, ...) it either has to be so far in the distance that it can't identify people or cars, or you have to block these parts of the image (either physically, or by blanking those parts of the signal bef…

> You can monitor your own property if you inform properly

Even that is restricted. For example it is not allowed to video monitor your employees in almost all cases. To use video surveillance you have to have a legitimate reason and even then the rights of you and the ones being filmed need to be carefully balanced.

Re: German government to use Trojan spyware to monitor citizens

#80

Post by Xylakant »

ptaipale wrote: post #68
Xylakant wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conveniently letting out the part about the racist remarks which are the actual cause. I'm all in favor of not letting racists teach children.

Well, very likely the same can be said about anti-nuclear protesters: they're not excluded for "political reasons", but for criminal actions which are "actual cause". Or so someone says. (Though in the case of this teacher, it looks like no crime could be cooked up). With AfD I've heard of trying to use just the political alignment as a reason (couldn't find the link just now).

If you're looking for samples you'll probably find sufficient if you're looking for NPD affiliates (they're not illegal either). If you look up cases where the affiliation is left-wing or anarchist you'll find even more. The standards for teachers are really very strict [1] - the must be "weltanschaulich neutral".

There's certainly a debate to be had about whether they're too strict, but IMHO, Höcke is so far across the line that I'm all in favor of keeping him out.

Edit: Note: higher standards apply for all government employees, but they're stricter for some, among them teachers, police etc.

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