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Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

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Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#51

Post by recampbell »

Groxx wrote: post #19
swombat wrote: post #3

Time for the other so-called broadband providers to shake in their boots. I like companies that have no respect for established business models. In this perspective, despite its size, I think it's fair to call Google a start-up.

I forget where the link was (I think somewhere on yc), but it showed a chart of internet access speed through a few years, rated by countries. Most of the large-nation world had grown by 10%+, many over 50%, in a few years, while the US had dropped by a couple percent. This is in addition to most of those countries being higher already, so it's not merely a 5kbps -> 8kbps jump. My price for internet access not going…

Here's a chart: http://lifehacker.com/5451127/seems-like-everyones-getting-f...

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#52

Post by andyking »

theblackbox wrote: post #11

Worth noting: We had something quite inspirational up in the Lakeland fells recently. One villiage (Alston Moor[1]) was so sick of constantly being set back by ISPs, that they organised a community action group to lay their own fibre optic cable during some planned roadworks. Everyone pitched in, cloudsourced infrastructure if you will, and with just enough people they look set to have 100Mb broadband before a lot of…

We need more of this sort of thing.

It's arguably far more important to get good internet access to rural areas than to inner cities. If you're in Central London or Manchester, you can quite easily shop, meet others in your field of work, network, be entertained without touching a computer if you don't want to.

Meanwhile in remote areas, it's not so easy to pop out and do these things and the internet has been a huge leap forward - but we're being held-back by spotty, slow, distinctly iffy internet connections that just aren't capable of sustaining meaningful economic activity. The advent of the internet is a huge chance to revive rural communities which have been in decline for years now.

But while BT, Google and other companies concentrate their high-speed efforts exclusively on profitable inner-city areas which already have a plethora of other options, we're in serious danger of leaving "forgotten" rural areas behind. I have friends on a Scottish island which currently only has 512kbps on its exchange...

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#53

Post by smiler »

pavs wrote: post #31
timdorr wrote: post #24

This may be paranoia, but I'm actually worried about this much bandwidth being the hands of ordinary people. My reasoning: super-botnets. This has the potential to very easily create a several 100Gbit DDOS network, which is essentially unstoppable. I understand the need and potential for high speed networks, but I think gigabit might be taking it a bit too far. It's a "with great power comes great responsibility" sor…

If I am not wrong, this kind of speed already exists for few years in some parts of the world. S.Korea, Japan and England comes to my mind.

The maximum you can get at a reasonable price in England is 50mb download at around $80 / month. It's also worth bearing in mind that upload is the critical speed for DDOS and that is _severely_ limited on most connections.

The maximum you can get on a residental connection in the UK is around 2mb.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#54

Post by Groxx »

recampbell wrote: post #51
Groxx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forget where the link was (I think somewhere on yc), but it showed a chart of internet access speed through a few years, rated by countries. Most of the large-nation world had grown by 10%+, many over 50%, in a few years, while the US had dropped by a couple percent. This is in addition to most of those countries being higher already, so it's not merely a 5kbps -> 8kbps jump. My price for internet access not going…

Here's a chart: http://lifehacker.com/5451127/seems-like-everyones-getting-f...

Yup, that's it. While clicking around something like that site, I also found one that covered a couple years, and the trend is roughly the same (with a couple more spikes).

edit: another, related chart, from a quick Google: http://www.marketingcharts.com/?attachment_id=781

I'll grant that median is likely not a good measuring point, but it is still revealing. Hell, Canada is out-doing us, so you can hardly argue it's because we're more spread out.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#55

Post by jonknee »

jsz0 wrote: post #27

I think Google would be better off partnering with existing service providers for this project. It's a hugely complex process to start from scratch. Getting the pole rights alone to build infrastructure is going to take them years. In some area's within the span of a mile you might pass poles owned by half a dozen different entities. Most of them owned by incumbent Internet service providers who will tell you the pol…

Considering they are only looking for a couple communities at most (and maybe just one), it's pretty logical that they will choose one where it's relatively easy. Temperate climate, clear rights of way, city government assisting, etc. They're not going to choose Manhattan.

I watched Verizon install FiOS around my city several years back and it was all quite efficient. Contracting firms dug the ditches, another firm put the cables down while the digging crew came back behind and filled in the trench. It was amazing how quickly they could hook up a neighborhood.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#56

Post by dantheman »

Groxx wrote: post #19
swombat wrote: post #3

Time for the other so-called broadband providers to shake in their boots. I like companies that have no respect for established business models. In this perspective, despite its size, I think it's fair to call Google a start-up.

I forget where the link was (I think somewhere on yc), but it showed a chart of internet access speed through a few years, rated by countries. Most of the large-nation world had grown by 10%+, many over 50%, in a few years, while the US had dropped by a couple percent. This is in addition to most of those countries being higher already, so it's not merely a 5kbps -> 8kbps jump. My price for internet access not going…

The problem is that cable companies were given monopolies by the local governments when the setup.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#57

Post by Retric »

wmf wrote: post #21
swombat wrote: post #3

Time for the other so-called broadband providers to shake in their boots. I like companies that have no respect for established business models. In this perspective, despite its size, I think it's fair to call Google a start-up.

Yeah, after Google starts selling broadband significantly below cost, no real ISP will be able to meet customers' inflated expectations.

I don't think Google is going to sell at below cost, the limitation on large network's bandwidth is primarily routing technology which has continued to improve while US broadband has stagnated. It's not like other countries have not been rolling out low cost 1Gbit consumer connections for a while.

PS: Despite all these talk of caps etc, upstream bandwidth is still a small chunk of a large ISP's budget.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#58

Post by tjogin »

imgabe wrote: post #23

Or downloading a high-definition, full-length feature film in less than five minutes. Did you hear that? It sounded as if millions of hollywood executives suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...

Was that what it was? Because I think it sounded a lot like scandinavia sighing that we've had this for a decade. (I'm sure other countries has too, the US really has backwater infrastructure.)

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#59

Post by tjogin »

smiler wrote: post #53
pavs wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I am not wrong, this kind of speed already exists for few years in some parts of the world. S.Korea, Japan and England comes to my mind.

The maximum you can get at a reasonable price in England is 50mb download at around $80 / month. It's also worth bearing in mind that upload is the critical speed for DDOS and that is _severely_ limited on most connections. The maximum you can get on a residental connection in the UK is around 2mb.

I live in Sweden. I had 10/10 mbit fibre in my (regular non-campus) apartment back in 2001, for peanuts, maybe $20 a month. In 2005 I briefly upgraded to 100/100 mbit (very common today), but found that it wasn't worth it (about $55) because what good will that do me when most of the internet can't keep up with it? I think it about doubled my speed from my previous connection, but that's it.

Today I have 12/4 mbit DSL, and I pay less than $20. I don't need more bandwidth, but if I did I could get a lot more than I could use for less than $50 a month.

Re: Think big with a gig: Our experimental fiber network

#60

Post by ericd »

natrius wrote: post #44
aw3c2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the poor coverage of decent internet connections a much bigger issue? Highspeed internet in urban areas might be cool but what about the rest of the country.

A bigger issue issue for who? Telecommunications companies have decided that it's not worth investing much in connections to low density areas. If there are enough people clicking on ads in those places to make it worthwhile, maybe Google will provide connections in those areas. If that doesn't happen, I don't see any justification for subsidizing people's connections above a level that is necessary for basic access…

That's the thing, I think internet access is essential to being an educated citizen nowadays, and many websites are no longer viable for dialup users to visit. High speed internet for all should be placed on the same level of importance as education for all.
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