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Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#91

Post by eridius »

mordocai wrote: post #64
ignoramous wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just made me realise that Apple is a true "do no evil" company and not Google, for all its technology powress and fancy marketing. A sad realisation as I have been using Google products for almost everything-- they pitch up everything under the F/OSS banner and it's so tempting. I think I should consider moving to iOS pretty seriously. I had been dismissing it for being over-priced and not being OSS. But the tru…

They may be "do no evil" on privacy, but apple heavily pushes vendor lock in and basically does everything they can to keep you from being able to easily switch to a different vendor. Google seems easier to switch from, they seem less concerned with vendor lock in (don't get me wrong though, they still have some vendor lock in. Just less than apple IMO). I think in this case it is "choose your evil" and for a lot of…

Google makes more money from iOS than they do from Android. Of course Google doesn't mind if you switch hardware vendors, just so long as you keep using Google products.

Also, I disagree with the notion that Apple "heavily pushes vendor lock in". They certainly don't go out of their way to make it easy to switch, but I can't come up with any examples off the top of my head where they're deliberately making it harder to switch without having a good reason for that decision. After all, Apple doesn't really have to do anything at all to keep people invested in its ecosystem, since platform-specific software, by its very nature, already acts as a form of lock-in, and iOS has a lot of software that other platforms don't.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#92

Post by harryjo »

karlshea wrote: post #67
return0 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isnt it possible that apple wants to indirectly harm google, by raising the issue for returning information to users? Believing that corporations can be "good" or "evil" is real bad advice at best, cheap marketing speak at worse. I think tech people should be immune to such messaging.

I honestly don't think Apple gave one second's thought about Google when they decided to take a stand on this issue.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/29/9413655/apple-privacy-poli...

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#93

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

Jtsummers wrote: post #85
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not too far off. Obviously nobody would smoke at work for the same reason they probably wouldn't drink, illegality aside. But, what people do outside of work is their own business. If my boss started seriously inquiring about my vices, first thing I'd do that night is update my resume. I've considered federal work before but every time I think hard about it, I keep coming back to the scene in Snow Crash where the fed…

> I've considered federal work before but every time I think hard about it, I keep coming back to the scene in Snow Crash where the fed works at a place where every little action - the time you arrive, the time you leave, whether you take the stairs or use electricity by taking the elevator - is scrutinized and judged. Yuck. Wasn't that the corporate guy that did that to his employees? Intruding into their homes, eve…

I was being hyperbolic, but the point remains: I don't want to work in a place where my behavior outside of work - as long as it has no effect on my performance and/or publicly embarrasses my employer - is a part of the evaluation regardless.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#94

Post by zepto »

riq_ wrote: post #73
ignoramous wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just made me realise that Apple is a true "do no evil" company and not Google, for all its technology powress and fancy marketing. A sad realisation as I have been using Google products for almost everything-- they pitch up everything under the F/OSS banner and it's so tempting. I think I should consider moving to iOS pretty seriously. I had been dismissing it for being over-priced and not being OSS. But the tru…

What Apple is doing is protecting its business model. It is a good thing what Apple is doing, but they are doing it only because it is aligned with its business model. Apple is a for-profit organization. Same as Google. Same as Facebook.

It's on record that Apple has chosen to avoid the business model used by Google in order to avoid this compromise.

Apple chooses a business model that is aligned with what it thinks is right, not the other way around.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#95

Post by unethical_ban »

blinkingled wrote: post #81
unethical_ban wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is. Apple's fight with the US is based on the fact they facilitate the encryption of user data so that even Apple doesn't see content. When the other titans don't have that feature, they have less of a stake in the argument at hand.

Is Google or Microsoft's business model dependent on selling your info to anyone other than themselves? Do you think if they did that they would stand to lose business? Their business model is to sell ads to 3rd parties based on the information they have about you. Selling your info itself would be detrimental to their business.

Gmail skims the contents of emails and uses them for targeted advertising. Same with searches of all kinds, and any other data they get from you.

Google's targeting would be less effective if they gave everyone PGP keys and locked themselves out of the conversations they host.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#96

Post by Jtsummers »

eridius wrote: post #91
mordocai wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may be "do no evil" on privacy, but apple heavily pushes vendor lock in and basically does everything they can to keep you from being able to easily switch to a different vendor. Google seems easier to switch from, they seem less concerned with vendor lock in (don't get me wrong though, they still have some vendor lock in. Just less than apple IMO). I think in this case it is "choose your evil" and for a lot of…

Google makes more money from iOS than they do from Android. Of course Google doesn't mind if you switch hardware vendors, just so long as you keep using Google products. Also, I disagree with the notion that Apple "heavily pushes vendor lock in". They certainly don't go out of their way to make it easy to switch, but I can't come up with any examples off the top of my head where they're deliberately making it harder…

Re lock-in: I agree. I attempted to switch to Android (Nexus 4) several years ago from whatever iPhone I had at the time. I had no issue transferring data over (or data I cared about, at least). Services (mail, chat, etc.) mapped just fine. My primary complaint, at the time, was lack of a well-performing PDF reader/viewer, and a handful of apps that I'd become semi-dependent on and had trouble finding suitable replacements for (e.g., Omnifocus - which has nice intregration between the mobile and desktop versions). I only wanted to change my mobile workflow, not the rest, so I switched back to iOS (I also found the interface grating at the time, not certain why anymore).

This is not, strictly, the fault of Apple, but of app developers and myself. Either for not making multi-platform a thing (Omnifocus), or for others not stepping up to compete, or for my inability or unwillingness to continue my search for suitable alternatives.

All this said, most of my coworkers use Android devices, and several want to switch to iPhones, but have run into the same issue I did, but in reverse.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#98

Post by asgfoi »

AngrySkillzz wrote: post #69

Of course the industry response is muted; this is the chilling effect that we were all worried about. Most Big Co's don't want to put themselves in opposition to an organization as powerful and well-funded as the US intelligence apparatus. I'm sure they are all on Apple's side, but are less willing to speak out about it because they fear the consequences. If you're cynical, you might think that this case is all about…

Do you think they choose to ask Apple to do this in such a public way, because they are very confident the phone will contain information that will help with the investigation, which will make a positive precedent about this method for future requests, and also provide 'lobbying power' when new laws will be considered?

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#99

Post by riquito »

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #3

What sets Apple apart from Googles and Facebooks is that it's the only company that stores the data in way that Apple itself cannot read it. This is why the others have little to say on the subject - there is no issue of a "backdoor", because there is no wall to begin with when it comes to Google or FB, their business model depends on reading and analyzing your emails and posts.

> What sets Apple apart from Googles and Facebooks

And here I believed that the difference was that one sells hardware and the others software.

Re: Apple Letter on iPhone Security Draws Muted Tech Industry Response

#100

Post by mconley »

gtrubetskoy wrote: post #3

What sets Apple apart from Googles and Facebooks is that it's the only company that stores the data in way that Apple itself cannot read it. This is why the others have little to say on the subject - there is no issue of a "backdoor", because there is no wall to begin with when it comes to Google or FB, their business model depends on reading and analyzing your emails and posts.

> What sets Apple apart from Googles and Facebooks is that it's the only company that stores the data in way that Apple itself cannot read it.

FWIW, Mozilla does the same thing for Firefox Accounts sync data - it's an opaque blob that we couldn't decrypt even if we wanted to.

(Disclosure: Mozilla employee)

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