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Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

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Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#81

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

IvanDenisovich wrote: post #78

In any large organization you'll see instances of departments clashing over projects, managers going over each others' heads and bureaucratic turf wars. I'm sure these disputes are at least as common inside the NSA, or between different branches of US intelligence, as they are between the US and its allies. The difference here is that in an international setting, our national ego comes into play and suddenly it's all…

> I'm sure these disputes are at least as common inside the NSA

Given the NSA's contradictory mandates to both improve and weaken security, I think you're definitely on to something.

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#82

Post by cema »

0xffff2 wrote: post #57
sithadmin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imagine if the NSA was staffed only with residents of NYC Bad analogy. Israel aggressively imports tech/engineering/science talent from the global Jewish diaspora.

I think it might actually be a pretty good analogy. Doesn't NYC (along with SV and maybe a few other parts of the country) do the same? The NSA staffed only with residents of NYC would probably look very different from the NSA staffed only by residents of the state of Michigan.

I think NSA is mostly staffed with residents of Maryland. Technically.

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#83

Post by cema »

chx wrote: post #56
jorgecurio wrote: post #6

what confuses me about the US-Israeli relationship is that the most of the times they work well but at times one is always sabatoging each other in a manner that makes you reconsider, is Israel and enemy or a friend to the United States? I don't think Japan would pull off shit like this. It's like there's a four tier system to what defines a US Ally. Platinum - Gets you exclusive access to black funds & latest weapon…

I think you misunderstand the relationship. One, there are civilians, extremely rich civilians who are sending more than a pretty penny to Israel. Two, the US government is essentially bribing the Israel government to stay put and not kill everyone around them. I believe most people vastly underestimate the military might of Israel. Did you know, for example, that Israel has unmanned ground vehicles https://en.wikipe…

  I was and still surprised they didn't grab a bit of Syria.
Does not seem to be Israel's mode of operation.

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#84

Post by monad100 »

BWStearns wrote: post #41
hackuser wrote: post #31

Remember that while Israel is a first world country, it's tiny. It's population is 8.4 million, 1/40th of the U.S. and about the size of New York City proper (not suburban, which is ~20 million). Probably the Israeli government does not have the same level of talent and other resources that the U.S. government does. Imagine if the NSA was staffed only with residents of NYC, for example. (However, 3 of 8 US Supreme Co…

This is a bit offset by their large proportional tech sector and compulsory service. The NSA (and gov tech in general) would be a hell of a lot better if everyone had to do a year or two of government service. Clarification: not to imply that the NSA is bad at their job currently, but if they could borrow two years off of every technical person in the country I can't see how that could hurt.

We serve three years, between high school and college

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#85

Post by sangnoir »

BWStearns wrote: post #50

>> The deadly virus >> “changed the code” (the scare quotes bit) >> to invent a “vaccine” >> the secret formula... fell into the hands of Russia and Iran >> increasingly stronger versions of the virus >> the most deadly version of the virus Is anyone else not wild about the manner in which "cyber" articles get written? I feel like non-technical readers are left mildly concerned that they're going to come down with a…

MOst of the quotes made sense to me: >> “changed the code” (the scare quotes bit)

Might not be scare quotes but a direct quotation

>> to invent a “vaccine”

This is pretty obvious - an antivirus

>> the secret formula... fell into the hands of Russia and Iran

They got a way to get the virus' signature, as well as copies to reverse-engineer

>> increasingly stronger versions of the virus

>> the most deadly version of the virus

Might refer to virulence or how quickly the effects were ramped up. The most effective viruses are not the most transmissible (burn themselves out and/or are quickly noticed)

> now that Russia and Iran have a copy of stuxnet we're all doomed

not doomed per se, but it would probably be better for the average american if this hadn't happened. The worst thing about this, IMO, is that it set a very public precedent on the use of 'cyber-weaponry', costing the US moral high-ground

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#86

Post by JohnD19 »

littletimmy wrote: post #38
samstave wrote: post #32

[in response to the anti Jew comments below]: This is just bad. Trust me I have @dang all over me when I make poor/emotional comments, but this is just ignorant. Nobody cares that the Israelis are Jews, we care when they (and any other homo Sapiens) act like assholes. So this is not a Jewish issue, per se, it's an asshole issue, let's be clear about that.

What anti-Jew comments? There aren't any.

There are not any because the masters delete them. And "any" means any comment that is critical against Israel and is immediately flagged as "anti-semitic" by the watchdogs/lapdogs. What a discrace.

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#88

Post by Animats »

jorgecurio wrote: post #6

what confuses me about the US-Israeli relationship is that the most of the times they work well but at times one is always sabatoging each other in a manner that makes you reconsider, is Israel and enemy or a friend to the United States? I don't think Japan would pull off shit like this. It's like there's a four tier system to what defines a US Ally. Platinum - Gets you exclusive access to black funds & latest weapon…

"It's like there's a four tier system to what defines a US Ally."

The editor of Al-Ahram in Cairo, who was very close to the government, once wrote on that subject back in the Cold War days. He said that the USSR had a quite explicit three-tier system, and it was very hard for a country to change tiers. Tier I countries got the Bolshoi ballet on tour, and when mid-level ministers called Moscow, the call back was from a higher level minister. Tier II countries got the Leningrad ballet, and callbacks from an equal level minister. Tier III countries didn't get tours and got callbacks from some low-level staffer.

On Israel as an ally of the US: The US and Israel do not have a mutual defense treaty. The US has a treaty obligation to defend NATO countries, most of South America, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and the Philippines.[2] But not Israel. The NATO connection is particularly strong; the NATO commander (a job which rotates amongst the NATO countries) can deploy troops from the member nations. Israel has a "security cooperation" treaty, but it doesn't obligate the US to support Israel militarily if they get into a war. A few years ago, Israel was pushing for war with Iran, but the US made it clear that Israel was on their own if they started a war with Iran.[3]

[1] http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/the-monitors-view/2012/0... [2] http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/collectivedefense/ [3] http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/07/20/the-real-cr...

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#89

Post by Fomite »

BWStearns wrote: post #50

>> The deadly virus >> “changed the code” (the scare quotes bit) >> to invent a “vaccine” >> the secret formula... fell into the hands of Russia and Iran >> increasingly stronger versions of the virus >> the most deadly version of the virus Is anyone else not wild about the manner in which "cyber" articles get written? I feel like non-technical readers are left mildly concerned that they're going to come down with a…

If it helps, they're not much better at writing copy about actual viruses.

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#90

Post by jqm »

chx wrote: post #56
jorgecurio wrote: post #6

what confuses me about the US-Israeli relationship is that the most of the times they work well but at times one is always sabatoging each other in a manner that makes you reconsider, is Israel and enemy or a friend to the United States? I don't think Japan would pull off shit like this. It's like there's a four tier system to what defines a US Ally. Platinum - Gets you exclusive access to black funds & latest weapon…

I think you misunderstand the relationship. One, there are civilians, extremely rich civilians who are sending more than a pretty penny to Israel. Two, the US government is essentially bribing the Israel government to stay put and not kill everyone around them. I believe most people vastly underestimate the military might of Israel. Did you know, for example, that Israel has unmanned ground vehicles https://en.wikipe…

Grabbing a bit of Syria would hardly have been worth the propaganda disaster though. The world wouldn't have reacted very favorably... particularly the Muslim world.

And yes, Israel has some extremely good technology. But they also have some pretty fierce enemies. See their incursion into Southern Lebanon a few years back for instance. They also don't have that large of a population. It probably is in their best interest they aren't seen as expansionist.... for the moment at least.

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