Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

jpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 139 posts

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#71

Post by brightball »

jorgecurio wrote: post #6

what confuses me about the US-Israeli relationship is that the most of the times they work well but at times one is always sabatoging each other in a manner that makes you reconsider, is Israel and enemy or a friend to the United States? I don't think Japan would pull off shit like this. It's like there's a four tier system to what defines a US Ally. Platinum - Gets you exclusive access to black funds & latest weapon…

My guess is that it's probably significantly simpler than that.

The US is not threatened by Iran. At all.

Israel is threatened by Iran and Iran's leaders have said they would wipe Israel off the map.

For Israel, there was probably a greater sense of urgency than the level of patience that we were willing to use.

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#74

Post by throwaway27_35 »

littletimmy wrote: post #36
redthrowaway wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alliances are about geopolitics as much as how much we like countries' behaviour. Israel is an invaluable intelligence partner in the War on Terror and a natural ally against Iran. They're also the closest thing to a liberal democracy in the Middle East. As long as the US continues to gain more from its alliance with Israel than it loses, the alliance will endure. No matter how much individual leaders may loathe each…

Not sure how this is true. What do you mean by "ally against Iran"? The US is Israel's ally against Iran, but what has the US against Iran if not for Israel? The entire point of contention between Iran and the US in today's world is Israel. Israel just expects us to fight for it.

Not even sure where to begin with this retarded comment

> but what has the US against Iran if not for Israel?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_United_States_embassy_bom...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

https://www.rt.com/news/266812-iran-arms-taliban-isis/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/war-zones/weapons-prove...

> Israel just expects us to fight for it.

As opposed to our real allies in Europe, South Korea, and the persian gulf who do all of their fighting on their own and never expect us to do any fighting on their behalf???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Army_ins...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_war

>inb4 you claim the iraq war (which removed the biggest threat to Israel's arch-rival, Iran) was in Israel's interests

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#75

Post by throwaway27_35 »

samstave wrote: post #44
littletimmy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how this is true. What do you mean by "ally against Iran"? The US is Israel's ally against Iran, but what has the US against Iran if not for Israel? The entire point of contention between Iran and the US in today's world is Israel. Israel just expects us to fight for it.

I may be misinformed, but I believe the seed of the US' anti-Iran stance comes from Iran attempting to not allow exploitation of Iran by the British empire, our ally and mother, and then after, only because the country of Israel was born and we know their history with each other... It's an empire-cock-blocking hate we have with Iran.

Israel was ruled by the British empire until 1948 but by 1956 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis) was friendly enough with Britain to side with them in a war. While I think your explanation is partially true, I think it is also an oversimplification. Why can some countries get over colonial interference, while others use it to justify everything they do?

This also begs the question what is Iran's main problem with Israel then? Israel wasn't involved in operation Ajax. Why is it the little Satan to America's great Satan?

Given their conduct in Syria, I find the "sympathy with the Palestinians" slightly hard to believe.

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#76

Post by TheGuyWhoCodes »

suprgeek wrote: post #13

Hate to turn this into a political thread when there is so much info about software but.... The sheer arrogance with with Israel operates is just something else. They seem to to believe that no action they take will ever be questioned or lead to any blowback. The almost total control of US Foreign policy that they have now makes me think that the Iran deal being operationalized was nothing sort of a coup for Pres. Ob…

"They seem to to believe that no action they take will ever be questioned or lead to any blowback" - That's not true. Like any country Israel wights the pros and cons of any decision. Some work in their favor some don't. If you think Israel doesn't taken into account the repercussions to it's actions you are gravely mistaken. I agree with you that Israel tries and succeeds in influencing US Foreign policy, why wouldn't any country do that if it works in their favor? Why is Israel being criticized of this when any other country including the UK, France, Germany, Iran, Egypt are doing the same?

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#77

Post by BWStearns »

wernercd wrote: post #53
BWStearns wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit offset by their large proportional tech sector and compulsory service. The NSA (and gov tech in general) would be a hell of a lot better if everyone had to do a year or two of government service. Clarification: not to imply that the NSA is bad at their job currently, but if they could borrow two years off of every technical person in the country I can't see how that could hurt.

Yes and no... Yes, because there would be a bigger pool to choose from. For the same reason that bigger schools have better sports teams: More Athletic types... Having a bigger pool of candidates means you have more chance to get specific with your choices. No, because then you would be using the "Draft". There is a reason the US moved away from it in after Vietnam and went to an "All Volunteer" force. ( https://en.w…

Definitely agree on the logic around a negative impact of a draft based service. I was thinking more along the lines of the Swiss model where you can go be a teacher or a ski patrolman and it'll still count rather than a Korea/Vietnam style thing.

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#78

Post by IvanDenisovich »

In any large organization you'll see instances of departments clashing over projects, managers going over each others' heads and bureaucratic turf wars. I'm sure these disputes are at least as common inside the NSA, or between different branches of US intelligence, as they are between the US and its allies.

The difference here is that in an international setting, our national ego comes into play and suddenly it's all about the Israeli lobby or some deep geopolitical interests, when it could just as easily be caused by a SW bug or an overzealous midlevel manager.

Maybe there is a place for a broader discussion about supplying arms to Israel, but I don't think this case is a good example. Looks more like Israel and the US collaborated very closely, on mostly equal terms, to achieve some impressive technological breakthroughs. If anything, this is a testament to how technology and international cooperation can provide a safe and efficient alternative to unilateral use of of force. If the worst side-effect of all of our covert and overt operations was leaking some Zero Days, the world would be a much safer place.

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#79

Post by guelo »

13thLetter wrote: post #70
guelo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Israelis have bought our corruptible political system to the point where all our politicians fight each other to prove who is more of a "friend" to Israel. If the US where acting in its real best interest it would keep Israel at much more of an arm's length. In a way Israel is much more of a dangerous enemy to American democracy than Iran, Russia, China or any other country.

> But Israelis have bought our corruptible political system... This isn't Stormfront, or a British newspaper. Please take your Zionist conspiracy theories elsewhere.

Give me a break. It is not antisemetic to say that AIPAC is one of the most powerful lobbys in DC. Or that people like Sheldon Adelson are central to the election process. I'm not saying it's the only special interest undermining our democracy, I'm saying it's a big one and heavily influenced by a foreign country. If it were a heavily influential China lobby everyone would be freaking out.

Re: Unilateral Israeli changes to Stuxnet caused its exposure, angering US

#80

Post by cheetos »

TheGuyWhoCodes wrote: post #76
suprgeek wrote: post #13

Hate to turn this into a political thread when there is so much info about software but.... The sheer arrogance with with Israel operates is just something else. They seem to to believe that no action they take will ever be questioned or lead to any blowback. The almost total control of US Foreign policy that they have now makes me think that the Iran deal being operationalized was nothing sort of a coup for Pres. Ob…

"They seem to to believe that no action they take will ever be questioned or lead to any blowback" - That's not true. Like any country Israel wights the pros and cons of any decision. Some work in their favor some don't. If you think Israel doesn't taken into account the repercussions to it's actions you are gravely mistaken. I agree with you that Israel tries and succeeds in influencing US Foreign policy, why wouldn…

> Why is Israel being criticized of this when any other country including the UK, France, Germany, Iran, Egypt are doing the same?

Because Israel could not do five percent of the things they are doing without the massive amount of military and financial welfare and protection they receive from the USA. The other countries you list do not have that luxury to nearly the same extent.

Post reply on HN