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Ask HN: Is Python dying?

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321–330 of 369 posts

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#321
post #132

Julia for Data Science? Ha! I think Julia might maybe have a shot at the space Matlab plays in the moment. But I'd define that more as scientific computing than data science. Does Julia even have a properly supported HBase interface? People are confused about how to connect to SQL Server [1] - until some pretty basic things like that are sorted out I don't think anyone will take it seriously for data science. Also: h…

http://danluu.com/julialang/ is telling but certainly gives little insight whether a statement "Julia for Data Science? Ha!" is justified or wise.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#322
The real improvement in development will be when code generation is automated to the point that writing an application is as easy as writing an word document. Remember when editing a document in a computer with editors like wordstar used to be sort of programming but now editing a rich document in computer is a no brainer. We need that kind of revolution in programming. Programming still requires high skillset but there is huge oppurtunity for disruption we can develop something that is is as easy for end users to "write" up an web or distributed or any kind of application as editing a word document. It's time to automate coding!!

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#323
post #5

That may be a view through the distorted HN lenses. Spend some time on Lambda the Ultimate and you'll think imperative programming is dying. Go is new and has lots of issues. It's annoying on many fronts and badly needs improvements in packaging area. It's good for some things and worse for others. JS is for frontend, because it's the only supported language. (although there are python-to-js compilers available if yo…

My prediction is that one day some alternative Python interpreter (Stackless, or GIL-less, or which compiles ahead of time to machine code, or something like that) will go from being merely an interesting concept to a dominant runtime. Python is such an excellent language, and it only has a small handful of elements holding it back from being even better. I feel like eventually something has to give, and either there…

I completely agree. Fixing the run time would be a large effort to addressing one of the big complaints.

However I want to see packaging addressed as well, if not first.

Unfortunately packaging has gotten so wonky, it is easier for me to shove my small projects into huge docker containers and liberate my sysadmins from maintaining virtual environments on servers. Servers that need to be rebuilt with more modern versions of gcc and other system libs.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they will still probably be labeled as dead man walking for the next 20 years long after your FP langue de jour will have outlasted it's pristine days and got damned to hell by the devs having to maintain the programs written in it. Don't get me wrong if you are currently doing consultancy business for a niche FP language far for me to blow the wistle to companies that instead of paying your fees and hefty salar…

I don't think so, this time: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/169296/Indepth_Functional_pro... "My pragmatic summary: A large fraction of the flaws in software development are due to programmers not fully understanding all the possible states their code may execute in. In a multithreaded environment, the lack of understanding and the resulting problems are greatly amplified, almost to the point of panic if you are payi…

Well I don't think functional languages are something new and by reading the latest death and doom I'd wonder how we ever got this far and why suddenly it's so much harder to do concurrency. I confess that I don't write low level software for lunar modules but just the regular enterprise stuff and having worked with high level concurrent constructs like ConcurrentHashMap, LinkedBlockingQueue, RingBuffers on the jvm I've yet to experience the concurrency issues everyone is lamenting. I know it must be hard for the people developing the jvm to make those high level concurrency constructs available for me, but that is why I'm grateful for their work and "happy" that I can rely on them. I don't know maybe I've just been very lucky until now.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My prediction is that one day some alternative Python interpreter (Stackless, or GIL-less, or which compiles ahead of time to machine code, or something like that) will go from being merely an interesting concept to a dominant runtime. Python is such an excellent language, and it only has a small handful of elements holding it back from being even better. I feel like eventually something has to give, and either there…

I completely agree. Fixing the run time would be a large effort to addressing one of the big complaints. However I want to see packaging addressed as well, if not first. Unfortunately packaging has gotten so wonky, it is easier for me to shove my small projects into huge docker containers and liberate my sysadmins from maintaining virtual environments on servers. Servers that need to be rebuilt with more modern versi…

Have you tried nuitka or Conda?

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elixir is promising. http://elixir-lang.org/

And really enjoyable... That's what really counts right?

Clearly you haven't worked with EXRM and the 'no documentation outside hello-world' Ecto query.

/s

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#327
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're working a problem capable of being solved by two $10/mo DO VMs, you're working a problem that can be solved in /any/ language.

I'm amazed by the number of people that declare the shared mutable state of the current languages as their bottleneck. You'd think everybody is suddenly working with realtime stream analysis on huge datasets and are battling millions of concurrent users these days. My thinking is that if you are so popular you can afford maybe to start 20 more 5$ instances. And really I find it hard to think of problems that cannot b…

Your comments are probably not intended to make anyone laugh but I'm enjoying them. But what you're saying is so true. I'd like to take it a bit further and add there's a reason while the implementation is slightly barbaric, Node.js continues to thrive. While I don't use Node, I have, and tend to think making things even more 'regressive' than say, Java, is the right way forward for most work.

Writing multi-pthreaded Java apps is not my idea of a good time. I am very interested in Elixir, but at the same time recognize that in reality I use Python. And if folks want to knock themselves out writing multithreaded Java apps... to go use Java.

I think the Node model for most, if not almost everything, fits needs well with its single-threaded event loop and scaling by process. Explicitly spinning up pthreads should be reserved for systems-programming, and in which case you are probably going to be using C(++)/Rust(?).

>You'd think everybody is suddenly working with realtime stream analysis on huge datasets and are battling millions of concurrent users these days.

I almost want to archive this somewhere or put it on a plaque next to my desk.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so, this time: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/169296/Indepth_Functional_pro... "My pragmatic summary: A large fraction of the flaws in software development are due to programmers not fully understanding all the possible states their code may execute in. In a multithreaded environment, the lack of understanding and the resulting problems are greatly amplified, almost to the point of panic if you are payi…

Well I don't think functional languages are something new and by reading the latest death and doom I'd wonder how we ever got this far and why suddenly it's so much harder to do concurrency. I confess that I don't write low level software for lunar modules but just the regular enterprise stuff and having worked with high level concurrent constructs like ConcurrentHashMap, LinkedBlockingQueue, RingBuffers on the jvm I…

Most of the bugs I see in the wild are of the "runaway state" variety; in other words, a state the programmer(s) involved forgot to imagine might happen. This class of bugs includes EVERY bug or crash that is fixed by a restart of an app or system (because all that does is reset state to a "known" a.k.a. "modeled" state, bringing it back within the code's, i.e. programmer's understanding). Therefore, anything (whether it is a language, a methodology, or both) which mitigates or eliminates this class of bugs would be HUGELY valuable.

Functional paradigms/languages, and immutable values, and controlling side effects, greatly help with that, in my front-line coding experience. Therefore, I am a fan.

Do you enjoy doing needless extra work? In other words, are you a little bit lazy? (in the Larry Wall "laziness/impatience/hubris" sense). If so, you should be at least trying out functional paradigms and see if they work for you like they have for pretty much everyone else who has taken them on.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#329

Yes, Python is dying, that's why it just moved up in the Tiobe rankings to #5, displacing PHP (which obviously no one ever uses): http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.... It's dominance of science is why Python has 25% science talks this year at PyCon, and why we see articles like: http://www.infoworld.com/article/3012442/application-develop... But yes, if you didn't know any languages, then of…

You raise very good points... But the question didn't seem "trolly" to me.

Re: Ask HN: Is Python dying?

#330

Python is the least-worst general purpose imperative not-performance-critical OO scripting language. It has lots of problems (weird scoping, community issues, roundabout docs, `''.join()`, crippled lambda, no variable declarations, some lousy naming, module distribution issues, yet more ways to do string formatting, whitespace-sensitive syntax instead of curlies+semis), but the alternatives have worse problems, so Py…

What's wrong with `''.join()`? It's fine as is, I think, same logic as '{}'.format().

Re. join, I think Perl got that one right: `join(glue, pieces)`.

`','.join(pieces)` just seems unnecessarily weird, and present simply for OO's sake. Not everything needs to be some object's method.

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