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For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

calgaryherald.com

81–90 of 190 posts

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#81
post #47

Ah yes, the monthly link to an article about intelligent/gifted children and the troubles their talents cause them, leading to all the self-proclaimed gifted HNers coming out of the woodwork declaiming "Me too! Me too! Finally someone who understands me!". Not dismissing the article itself, but it's definitely a pattern on HN.

Most people intuitively understand that a person with 25 points lower IQ than the average population is going to have unique problems and go through life in a slightly different path and order than the average. However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. It's also a pattern on HN because it really is a rather new concept. In Sweden, the law that dictates t…

> However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average.

If you're so smart, can't you figure that shit out?

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#82

Ah yes, the monthly link to an article about intelligent/gifted children and the troubles their talents cause them, leading to all the self-proclaimed gifted HNers coming out of the woodwork declaiming "Me too! Me too! Finally someone who understands me!". Not dismissing the article itself, but it's definitely a pattern on HN.

HN responses are predictable on many verticals. Upvoting happens for: 1. YC unicorns. 2. Obscure programming language news. 3. Medium/Natilius posts on self-improvement. 4. NYTimes/WSJ/WashPost articles on obvious trends in business or STEM. 5. SV "celebrity" projects.

6) Managers are dumb and developers are clever

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's orthogonal to the article. Under a system designed to the lowest common denominator, those on the low end have to put X amount of effort in order to pass. Those who are gifted have to put in X-Y effort where Y can almost nearly equal X (leading to kids not ever learning how to study). The Swedish system basically begins with the proposition that all students should put out X effort. Gifted children get m…

What does it take to get into a gifted class in the US? Where I grew up, anyone can apply for these schools (not everyone gets in of course).

Education in the US is controlled mostly at the state and local levels. Some states have requirements on gifted education; some don't. Gifted programs vary from completely nonexistant to prevalent and easy to access depending on the school district.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#84
post #20

Ah yes, the monthly link to an article about intelligent/gifted children and the troubles their talents cause them, leading to all the self-proclaimed gifted HNers coming out of the woodwork declaiming "Me too! Me too! Finally someone who understands me!". Not dismissing the article itself, but it's definitely a pattern on HN.

But my mum had to cut all the tags out of my shirts when I was in school too! Finally someone who feels my pain! :P Edit: She did though, damn things were itchy. Doesn't seem to be a problem since I grew up though. Funny that.

I don't know. Isn't this something all kids do? My brothers all hated the tags and so does my daughter.

I think tags on kids clothes are just comparatively gigantic. I always thought most kids just dealt with it to avoid getting in trouble.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#85
I could say a lot about the quality of education: the lack of a challenge, the boringness of the one-size-fits-all curriculum, etc. But boredom isn't that big of a deal. I made up for that by studying what I wanted to outside of school, instead of doing homework. Even with the vindictive teachers that made homework 30% of the final grade, it was still cakewalk to pass their classes without doing a single assignment.

The real root of the reason school was a living hell for me was the bullying. We all like to tell kids that "the teachers will help you", but they either don't care or feel they can't do anything. Either way, the net effect is they are completely useless. We tell kids, "it builds character!", but that's nonsense. I don't care if it is the secret to my success, I'd rather be average today than to have experienced a tormented childhood. Those were formative years, and those scars run deep.

The worst mistake I ever made was deciding I wouldn't be a part of that Lord of the Flies bullshit. I kept thinking it'd get better as we got older, but it only got much worse. I never stuck up for myself, never learned how to fight, never worked out to become stronger to defend myself. And that's easily my biggest source of regret. Every day my mind recalls terrible memories from those days, and I find myself constantly thinking, "if only I had fought back here or done this there ..."

Bullying mostly targets the gifted, but it would help everyone if we took it seriously, instead of just saying, "well I went through it and lived; so the next generation can too!"

Also, it's bordering on a different topic, but bullying very much extends to the home as well. Abusive parents, siblings, etc. Some kids have literally no escape from it for 18+ years.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#86
post #85

I could say a lot about the quality of education: the lack of a challenge, the boringness of the one-size-fits-all curriculum, etc. But boredom isn't that big of a deal. I made up for that by studying what I wanted to outside of school, instead of doing homework. Even with the vindictive teachers that made homework 30% of the final grade, it was still cakewalk to pass their classes without doing a single assignment.…

If it makes you feel any better, if you fight back you will get hit harder.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. I'm not sure how accurate this is. All the exceptionally talented kids/young people I knew growing up were nice and well-liked, well-adjusted people. All the weird kids I knew were just weird, not really especially talented. I'd like to see the numbers behind those anecdotes. There was recently an article here…

I think it's orthogonal to the article. Under a system designed to the lowest common denominator, those on the low end have to put X amount of effort in order to pass. Those who are gifted have to put in X-Y effort where Y can almost nearly equal X (leading to kids not ever learning how to study). The Swedish system basically begins with the proposition that all students should put out X effort. Gifted children get m…

It's an interesting idea and I agree with the argument.

Having been one of those 'gifted children' and gone to gifted schools where I wasn't challenged, I think this is a good idea.

I basically never had to put any effort in until my last year of high school and completely breezed through my education. Once I hit university and couldn't get away with that anymore, I was totally unequipped to handle continuing my education or holding a job that matched my capabilities. I hit a wall of failure pretty hard.

It probably took me another 7 years after that to get my life together where I had the habits to try and achieve things through consistent effort.

And yeah, all of the depression, anxiety and substances abuse that you would expect happened too.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#88
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I presume you know these 'gifted HNers' well enough to know they are self-proclaimed? Trust me, having an IQ 50% higher than the average of the rest of the population isn't fun. And though IQ is generally all that is needed to be considered 'gifted,'it isn't everything. There have been many studies on this. I am not self proclaimed, I have the tests to prove it and I get sick of people telling me how smart I am a…

If you have a diagnosed disorder, you should take medication for it unless your physician suggests otherwise.

The Physician is Always Right! TM

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's orthogonal to the article. Under a system designed to the lowest common denominator, those on the low end have to put X amount of effort in order to pass. Those who are gifted have to put in X-Y effort where Y can almost nearly equal X (leading to kids not ever learning how to study). The Swedish system basically begins with the proposition that all students should put out X effort. Gifted children get m…

What does it take to get into a gifted class in the US? Where I grew up, anyone can apply for these schools (not everyone gets in of course).

When I was growing up it was a combination of high incoming aptitude/IQ tests, teacher recommendation and a battery of other cognitive tests before being granted entry.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#90
post #47

Ah yes, the monthly link to an article about intelligent/gifted children and the troubles their talents cause them, leading to all the self-proclaimed gifted HNers coming out of the woodwork declaiming "Me too! Me too! Finally someone who understands me!". Not dismissing the article itself, but it's definitely a pattern on HN.

Most people intuitively understand that a person with 25 points lower IQ than the average population is going to have unique problems and go through life in a slightly different path and order than the average. However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. It's also a pattern on HN because it really is a rather new concept. In Sweden, the law that dictates t…

In Germany we have a three class system for schools (+ a school for children with special needs). The effect of this is that children not get separated by their potential but by the socioeconomic class of their parents. There's research that even at the same grades you're more likely to get a recommendation to go to the highest class of school, Gymnasium, if your parents are from a higher socioeconomic class.

When I was in basic school, before the separation happens, I had a friend that was said to be asozial. Asozial is a common description in Germany for low class people without basic education. His father was alcoholic, they lived in a really run down house and his parents weren't able to help him with the topics covered in basic school. At no point did I have the feeling that he was somehow dumber or less intelligent. What he was struggling with was the situation he was in. Meanwhile I was struggling with add and was only able to get through the first years of school with the help of my mother that made me sit down at the table until all homework was finished. When my parents saw that we struggled only the slightest bit they helped us with school. I didn't get private tutoring, but that seems to be extremely common now. Another thing that's only available to kids of affluent families.

The vibe I'm getting from Sweden (I lived there for a while, learned the language and still follow the news), is that it's moving to a more and more class-segregated country. Sure, everybody can look for the best school for their children, but only parents from higher socioeconomic classes will do that.

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