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For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

calgaryherald.com

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Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#61

Post by kreilly »

goodJobWalrus wrote: post #51
belorn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people intuitively understand that a person with 25 points lower IQ than the average population is going to have unique problems and go through life in a slightly different path and order than the average. However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. It's also a pattern on HN because it really is a rather new concept. In Sweden, the law that dictates t…

> However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. I'm not sure how accurate this is. All the exceptionally talented kids/young people I knew growing up were nice and well-liked, well-adjusted people. All the weird kids I knew were just weird, not really especially talented. I'd like to see the numbers behind those anecdotes. There was recently an article here…

I think you are looking for this New York Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/how-to-rais...

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#63

Post by goodJobWalrus »

kreilly wrote: post #61
goodJobWalrus wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. I'm not sure how accurate this is. All the exceptionally talented kids/young people I knew growing up were nice and well-liked, well-adjusted people. All the weird kids I knew were just weird, not really especially talented. I'd like to see the numbers behind those anecdotes. There was recently an article here…

I think you are looking for this New York Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/opinion/sunday/how-to-rais...

No, it was a different one, discussed actual people who were in the news as being child prodigies, entered universities years early etc...but from what I remember their conclusion was the something like this, that those kids didn't learn to risk or learn to be creative, they were really just jumping through hoops.

edit: or it could be, not sure any more...

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#64

Post by egads »

goodJobWalrus wrote: post #51
belorn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people intuitively understand that a person with 25 points lower IQ than the average population is going to have unique problems and go through life in a slightly different path and order than the average. However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. It's also a pattern on HN because it really is a rather new concept. In Sweden, the law that dictates t…

> However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. I'm not sure how accurate this is. All the exceptionally talented kids/young people I knew growing up were nice and well-liked, well-adjusted people. All the weird kids I knew were just weird, not really especially talented. I'd like to see the numbers behind those anecdotes. There was recently an article here…

> There was recently an article here that discussed why extremely academically gifted children rarely become grown-up geniuses and people who move their fields forward. They stated that it's not because they are troubled, most of them are socially well-adjusted, but I can't find that article now for the lie of me.

I didn't see the article in question, but I'd put money on this being an excerpt from Adam Grant's "Originals" as it was released in the past couple of weeks and this is a point made in the opening chapter.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#65

Post by belorn »

goodJobWalrus wrote: post #51
belorn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people intuitively understand that a person with 25 points lower IQ than the average population is going to have unique problems and go through life in a slightly different path and order than the average. However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. It's also a pattern on HN because it really is a rather new concept. In Sweden, the law that dictates t…

> However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. I'm not sure how accurate this is. All the exceptionally talented kids/young people I knew growing up were nice and well-liked, well-adjusted people. All the weird kids I knew were just weird, not really especially talented. I'd like to see the numbers behind those anecdotes. There was recently an article here…

I am not a researcher on the subject, and the material I have heard is primarily in Swedish. http://www.filurum.se/forskning/ list research papers if you are looking for more precise numbers rather than anecdotes, and the site list a few articles in English at the bottom.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#66

Post by goodJobWalrus »

true_religion wrote: post #58
goodJobWalrus wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, for some reason, this is not easily understood regarding people with 25 points over the average. I'm not sure how accurate this is. All the exceptionally talented kids/young people I knew growing up were nice and well-liked, well-adjusted people. All the weird kids I knew were just weird, not really especially talented. I'd like to see the numbers behind those anecdotes. There was recently an article here…

I think it's orthogonal to the article. Under a system designed to the lowest common denominator, those on the low end have to put X amount of effort in order to pass. Those who are gifted have to put in X-Y effort where Y can almost nearly equal X (leading to kids not ever learning how to study). The Swedish system basically begins with the proposition that all students should put out X effort. Gifted children get m…

What does it take to get into a gifted class in the US? Where I grew up, anyone can apply for these schools (not everyone gets in of course).

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#67

Post by willholloway »

clentaminator wrote: post #12

Ah yes, the monthly link to an article about intelligent/gifted children and the troubles their talents cause them, leading to all the self-proclaimed gifted HNers coming out of the woodwork declaiming "Me too! Me too! Finally someone who understands me!". Not dismissing the article itself, but it's definitely a pattern on HN.

You actually are dismissing the article itself, and the experiences of all the HNers that have experienced what it talks about firsthand.

Your phrase "self-proclaimed gifted" is outright dismissive.

This is a natural human reaction. The reminder of the existence of people smarter than ourselves often results in narcissistic injury, it feels bad, it can hurt.

It's the reason gifted education is such a low and unpopular funding priority.

But all that does is make society poorer.

Humanity's gifted population is one of it's great resources, and we squander it. We don't protect it, and we don't value it, and we don't foster it.

The article talks about twice exceptional kids, these are kids who are gifted but often have a discrepancy or a weakness, a learning disability.

Because they are highly verbal and intelligent, they can use that to cover for their weaknesses, but they do not do well in a school setting at all.

They withdraw or they become the class clown to entertain themselves.

This often compounds over the years, like untreated ADD, and turns into depression, anxiety, substance abuse and so on.

And it's a tragedy because they have so much to offer, but we fail them, and we lose a lot of them.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#68

Post by sathackr »

clentaminator wrote: post #12

Ah yes, the monthly link to an article about intelligent/gifted children and the troubles their talents cause them, leading to all the self-proclaimed gifted HNers coming out of the woodwork declaiming "Me too! Me too! Finally someone who understands me!". Not dismissing the article itself, but it's definitely a pattern on HN.

And I presume you know these 'gifted HNers' well enough to know they are self-proclaimed?

Trust me, having an IQ 50% higher than the average of the rest of the population isn't fun. And though IQ is generally all that is needed to be considered 'gifted,'it isn't everything. There have been many studies on this.

I am not self proclaimed, I have the tests to prove it and I get sick of people telling me how smart I am and how they wish they could be like me. I've gotten that line from surgeons and psychologists, people who's job I couldn't do even if I tried. I try to frame it in their mindset to show them that they can do it too. I truly think if they would get out of that mindset, they could be much 'smarter' also. Biology plays a role but it's not everything.

I don't identify with the people in the article. I wasn't particularly weird, eccentric, bullied, or any of the typical things that you hear about. I had friends, girlfriends, etc... About the only typical nerd thing was I was usually the teacher's pet. But I think that's just because I was always wanting to help.

I was diagnosed with ADHD at 14, refused to take the medications and have been dealing with it ever since. Tags, sock seams, etc... didn't bother me. I had the typical ADHD symptoms, but that's about it.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#69

Post by epimetheus »

brendonjohn wrote: post #39

I have a friend that is considered incredibly intelligent. When he attended kindergarten he realised he was different from the other children and so deduced he must be an alien. Fortunately his hypothesis was just a phase.

This strikes home, though I'm pretty much "only" upper normal (110-120 - several results in that range; never tested as a kid), but I had this fantasy from like 2nd grade until 5th or 6th grade. I probably annoyed my parents to no end.

Re: For gifted children, being intelligent can have dark implications (2015)

#70

Post by foxly »

I'm from Calgary, and I went through the GATE program covered in this article.

While some of my classmates were certainly a bit ...eccentric... the vast majority were wonderful, completely normal people and many of them went on to do incredible things.

I've since moved to San Francisco, and I've gotta say, SF and the GATE program seem to have a lot in common: both fill me with the feeling that anything is possible; coupled with the nagging suspicion that everyone else is smarter, harder working, and more successful ... :)

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