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Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

theguardian.com

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Re: Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

#71

Post by bildung »

junto wrote: post #35
1ris wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany does not have such a thing as a pension chest. Pensions are directly paid by the working generation. That has it's problems, but it does also have it's benefits and makes this comparison useless.

> Germany does not have such a thing as a pension chest. Pensions are directly paid by the working generation. That's only the statutory part though. You are advised to contribute to an occupational and/or private arrangement alongside the statutory scheme. They operate differently. The underlying problem Germany has is the population dynamics. The population is an ageing one. Lots of people are living longer and not…

> The underlying problem Germany has is the population dynamics.

Actually the fact that wages stopped rising along with the economy as a whole (e.g. less of the generated profits get payed out as wages) seems to play an important role, too.

The retirees represent a cost in absolute numbers (e.g. they are entitled to pension benefits of a certain size). The workforce is collectivly paying out the retirees with a share of their income.

That system works fine even with a declining retiree/workforce ratio (which actually shrinks since at least the 1960s) as long as real wages continue to grow along with GDP and productivity.

Which they don't, and that's a problem.

Re: Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

#72

Post by dualogy »

simi_ wrote: post #64

Moving from the UK to Germany, I chose Deutsche Bank based on its reputation. Pros: * English! There is always someone on the phone who can speak English, and they can even send their letters in English. (for Germany, this is very rare) * More "high touch" - there is a person assigned to your account * I can't remember if this was the case in UK, but I noticed that transfers to some Western EU countries have no fees…

> The way to authorise online transactions is with a piece of paper with 100 codes printed on it (TAN list). This was a shock, but it's apparently common here.

Well whoever can hack your password, mobile TAN or TAN reader device will likely still not hack into your paper TAN list. There's something to be said for a "physical layer".

Re: Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

#73

Post by cm2187 »

JetSetWilly wrote: post #8
Hermel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why there isn't more resistance against the exorbitant fines the US charges European banks every year. These fines have become a significant business risk and should be regulated in free trade agreements, just like subsidies are limited in such agreements. For many European banks, the US business is a money drain, i.e. it costs them more than they get from it. However, they cannot escape US regulation and le…

US Regulators fine all banks in the US that they catch flagrantly breaking the law. They don't just fine European banks - have a look at how much they have fined the likes of JPMorgan or BoA over the last few years. Likewise, regulators in Europe dish out fines a-plenty. The FSA certainly did over the LIBOR scandal recently. European banks could mitigate risk in the US by trading legally or by ceasing trading there a…

Not all american banks. This example is pretty spectacular: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4988f704-40a4-11e2-aafa-00144feabd...

This is a fraud nearly as bad as Kerviel, and happening at about the same time ($8bn unauthorised position), and where Goldman quietly fired the trader and did not report the fraud, which enabled the trader to work at another bank. And for that Goldman was given a mega-fine of..... $1.5m.

It helps to have friends.

Re: Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

#74

Post by creshal »

chvid wrote: post #67
morsch wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Merkel buying new shoe laces costs money in the short term. You have just repeated your claims from the original post without clearing up what you mean by stretching public finances and documenting it with numbers. Everybody else is basically saying that the refugees aren't expensive enough to warrant this language on the balance sheet of one of the richer economies in the world.

I really was biting my tongue to write this as dry and neutral as possible. I am from Denmark and in many ways we are similar to Germany. But we are different in that we have taken in a relatively small number of refugees (around 25.000 pa. excl. family reunions, population 6 mio.) and yet the subject number 1 in Danish politics is how to handle the strech on public finances it creates. This may be due to two things:…

> But we are different in that we have taken in a relatively small number of refugees (around 25.000 pa. excl. family reunions, population 6 mio.) and yet the subject number 1 in Danish politics is how to handle the strech on public finances it creates.

How much of that stretch is real, and how much is fear-mongering to influence upcoming elections? Do you have hard numbers?

Re: Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

#75

Post by cm2187 »

Kristine1975 wrote: post #7
Hermel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why there isn't more resistance against the exorbitant fines the US charges European banks every year. These fines have become a significant business risk and should be regulated in free trade agreements, just like subsidies are limited in such agreements. For many European banks, the US business is a money drain, i.e. it costs them more than they get from it. However, they cannot escape US regulation and le…

Maybe the banks should simply stop committing crimes.

The problem is size. It is statistically impossible to employ 300,000 people and not have one dishonest employee.

But the standard for banks is now a zero tolerance policy with multi-billions fines for any breach. It is a game they cannot win.

Re: Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

#76

Post by [deleted] »

Oletros wrote: post #55
Sidon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe your colleague from Greece should realize that when DB 'falls' tons of people will take the fall for it, regular people like you and me, people who are just trying to make a living, like all those poor fucks in Greece. The group of people taking the fall for it won't be limited to Germany, you can be sure Greeks will feel it as well. Tell him to just stfu and get back to work.

The only difference is that right now the bank is German. When the banks were Greek, Spanish, Portuguese or Irish, the German government didn't give a fuck about the people. Don't tell us about regular people, we have suffered it since years ago and Merkel just said STFU and fuck off And don't talking about the moral lessons they gave us. But ohh, the German banks are exactly the same as the other ones

[deleted]

Re: Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

#77

Post by pofjer »

Oletros wrote: post #68
pofjer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small correction: "When the banks were Greek, Spanish, Portuguese or Irish, the Greek, Spanish, Portuguese and Irish governments didn't give a fuck about the people." Since you appear to be from one of those countries, you should see how to get more responsible for your choices and look for better representatives to elect. I don't see what's your point about another sovereign country. Everyone has their own problems,…

No, your correction is a lie. The ones that didn't give a fuck, didn't want to help and made the crisis worst were the German government and their negative to help because the South countries were just a bunch of people that didn't work, expend too much and deserved all that happen. >? Since you appear to be from one of those countries, you should see how to get more responsible for your choices and look for better r…

Precisely! You prove my point. It was the German government and not the regular people in Germany. My "advice" applies to Germany and elsewhere equally as well. The point being, ΣΥΡΙΖΑ won with sweet words, but failed to act upon them, which is a pity. Don't think that just because Merkel gets reelected, everyone from the German nation stays behind all her government does. NO! And there was, is and will be a lot of criticism from the German people for things like this.

So, για όνομα του Θεού, don't fall into the trap the media tries to put us into (for whatever reasons, I don't care). This is not about Germans vs Greeks, it's about the consistently failing banking system around the world. Only when we realise the true nature of the problems at hand, can we deal with them.

Be well and prosperous!

Re: Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

#78

Post by wobbleblob »

StavrosK wrote: post #60
TurboHaskal wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, tell that dirty lazy Greek to get back to work. They deserve every bit of what happened to them and the debt won't pay by itself. Such a banking fiasco would never happen in a country filled with precise, punctual, hard-working and responsible light beings such as Germany.

But, I mean, apart from his offensive last line, he has a point. I'm Greek and I wouldn't wish bank failure on anyone, German or not.

The Germans will be ok, don't worry about them, but maybe they'll change their mind about collective guilt now.

I never saw the EU bailouts as handouts from the virtuous to the losers, nor do I see it as an altruistic gift to our friends in need. I see it more as an insurance. Do people whose house isn't on fire want to punish those whose house burned down? No. We all know it could happen to us.

I don't think Germany will need a bailout, but if some day they do, we should do it.

Re: Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

#79

Post by chvid »

creshal wrote: post #74
chvid wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really was biting my tongue to write this as dry and neutral as possible. I am from Denmark and in many ways we are similar to Germany. But we are different in that we have taken in a relatively small number of refugees (around 25.000 pa. excl. family reunions, population 6 mio.) and yet the subject number 1 in Danish politics is how to handle the strech on public finances it creates. This may be due to two things:…

> But we are different in that we have taken in a relatively small number of refugees (around 25.000 pa. excl. family reunions, population 6 mio.) and yet the subject number 1 in Danish politics is how to handle the strech on public finances it creates. How much of that stretch is real, and how much is fear-mongering to influence upcoming elections? Do you have hard numbers?

The numbers exists - at least for Denmark. I think the stretch is real. Elections are not due any time soon.

Re: Deutsche Bank: Germany's Financial Colossus Stumbles

#80

Post by morsch »

chvid wrote: post #67
morsch wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Merkel buying new shoe laces costs money in the short term. You have just repeated your claims from the original post without clearing up what you mean by stretching public finances and documenting it with numbers. Everybody else is basically saying that the refugees aren't expensive enough to warrant this language on the balance sheet of one of the richer economies in the world.

I really was biting my tongue to write this as dry and neutral as possible. I am from Denmark and in many ways we are similar to Germany. But we are different in that we have taken in a relatively small number of refugees (around 25.000 pa. excl. family reunions, population 6 mio.) and yet the subject number 1 in Danish politics is how to handle the strech on public finances it creates. This may be due to two things:…

It's completely reasonable to talk about refugees in terms of what they cost -- the number is important since it has to be accounted for in the budget planning after all. When you've got a reasonable feel for how high that number is, it's worth putting it into the context of the general budget to determine whether it "stretches it" (again, whatever that means). I don't have either of those numbers for Denmark.

What to do with either of them is a separate question, if the estimated cost (or its relation to the general budget) is so high that it warrants barring the entry to asylum seekers. This is obviously a difficult thing to judge, since it trades off economic policy against what is typically framed in terms of basic human rights.

Thanks for staying cool. :) I do think it's possible to have a reasonable conversation about this, and you are right that it is often strange how different the conversation is even just across the border.

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