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Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

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Re: Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

#31
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen more than a handful of presumably right-wing commentators on Reddit of late arguing that the Nazis were actually socialists or 'communists' rather than a right-wing group. The ensuing (typically unresolved) argument comes down to how fascism is defined for each person. Fascism is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

Nazi is national socialism. Fascism was in Italy and Spain.

The Nazi party was socialist in much the same way the DPRK is democratic.

Re: Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

#32
The essential difference between totalitarian state and military junta seems to be popular support. With junta, you can trust that almost nobody is loyal directly to the dictator, they just want money and stay alive. So you can bribe anybody. In totalitarian state you can never be sure who will take "cause of the party" as his own. So lives of normal people are affected in totally different way.

There has been two types of totalitarian popular movements so far: nationalistic and international. Fascism falls in the first category, Communism in the second. The problem of communist is that it never has been able to spread the revolution as originally intended. So they have fallen back to "Socialism in one state" policies everywhere.

Given the similarities, it's not surprising that the left usually tries to paint fascism as "far right" or "ultra nationalist". The first is simply incorrect, the latter on the other hand is kinda misleading. Nationalism is also the basis for all systems of national governance, so you can be ultra nationalist while supporting democracy, monarchy or pretty much anything else. Even Stalinism when that dude was still alive.

Re: Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

#33
Couple of thoughts:

The greatest relative strength of USA was right after the WWII when US GDP and industrial capacity was more than the rest of the world combined, had unmatched military capability and nuclear supremacy. Since then in geopolitical terms US is in decline.

The peak of US economy looking from the point of the middle class was 1969 - after that there were oil shocks, stagflation, outsourcing and hollowing out of the middle class. with a short blip upwards in the late 90s when US was reaping the benefits of winning the cold war and the computing boom.

And right now US is in a almost decade long depression if you exclude the SV,Wall street, and some landlords.

So there is both relative and real decline for big parts of the US public.

I don't think Trump is a fascist. Or even a particularly authoritarian hard liner.

And he has so far respected the letter of the US constitution. All of his vitriol has been towards people that are not US citizens. And the Supreme Court has made it clear that if you are not a US Citizen being in US is privilege, not a right.

Re: Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

#34
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Owning a book and reading it are two different things. We all own books we've never read.

Why on earth would you own a book you've never read?

It was gifted to him IIRC.

Re: Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

#35
post #10
post #2

There's a famous joke that "fascist" in politics just means "I don't like you" It's just an ill-defined insult at this point. George Orwell had interesting things to say. http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc

I've seen more than a handful of presumably right-wing commentators on Reddit of late arguing that the Nazis were actually socialists or 'communists' rather than a right-wing group. The ensuing (typically unresolved) argument comes down to how fascism is defined for each person. Fascism is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

I don't think the political spectrum is a simple straight line, as the traditional left-center-right labels would imply.

If you travel far enough along that line, extreme politics of either flavour will for all practical purposes converge.

If not in ideology, then implementation.

Re: Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

#36
post #25
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should read Mein Kampf, a book which set out Hitler's world view and one which as we know had dreadful consequences affecting every person on this planet.

This recent interview with a scholar of Mein Kampf is one of the best things I've heard on NPR in years. Fascinating from start to finish, way more than I expected. http://www.npr.org/2016/01/14/463028807/the-failed-coup-that...

And now even non scholars in Germany are allowed to read the book.

http://forward.com/news/328950/mein-kampf-no-longer-banned-i...

Re: Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

#37
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen more than a handful of presumably right-wing commentators on Reddit of late arguing that the Nazis were actually socialists or 'communists' rather than a right-wing group. The ensuing (typically unresolved) argument comes down to how fascism is defined for each person. Fascism is clearly in the eye of the beholder.

Nazi is national socialism. Fascism was in Italy and Spain.

Wrong. Hitler had great admiration of Mussolini all the way up to Mussolini's death. Hitler copied Mussolini (including the Roman salute) and used Italy's dictatorship as a model for Germany's.

Fascism in Spain didn't come until after fascism took over both Italy and Germany, and only did with the help of both of those countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica

Re: Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

#38
It's funny how many people oppose Trump on the basis of his "Mexican wall" idea, while supporting Hillary.

Meanwhile, the "Mexican wall" already exists (Google it!), and Hillary voted for it:

> I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in

http://www.latintimes.com/hillary-clinton-bragging-about-bui...

Re: Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

#39
post #23

Aren't racist, sexist, and xenophobic enough? Because I'm sure I can think of plenty more adjectives that I can apply objectively. I disagree with the article that 'fascist' is one of the worst things to be in today's world and those three things above (as well as the rest that could've gone there) are much worse.

Not at all. Calling something or someone racist, sexist or xenophobic does not by itself means much or invalidate. A policy may be such and still effective or optimal.

Lets take Europe migration crisis - 70% of the incoming people are single, young and male - that is the demographic that is impossible to integrate and they skew gender balance which is sure way to create social tension. A policy to exclude them and only let women, children and families will be all of those 3 (and couple more isms), but i think it will lead to better outcome for Europe than the current situation.

Re: Is Donald Trump a fascist? A historian of fascism weighs in

#40

The things Donald Trump says (such as "stop Mexicans from coming into our country illegally" or "ban Muslims from immigrating to our country until we're confident in our terrorist screening process") offend a LOT of people. People who don't believe such things should be said, or even talked about. People who, when someone says these things, viciously attack them, saying they are morally wrong for thinking those thing…

People have just as much of a right to call Trump a racist and fascist as he does to say the things he does. No matter how much it might hurt someone's feelings.

You use a lot of strong language to describe what is only (free) speech: "viciously attack", "silence those who dare utter", "squash dissent", "lynch mobbing".

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