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Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

nytimes.com

121–130 of 146 posts

Re: Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most houses in the U.S. built prior to a few decades ago have lead paint and many have asbestos. Then there's the whole leaded gasoline fiasco. The world has known of the danger of lead and many other dangerous substances, but often still chooses to use the dangerous substance. Sometimes it's because there weren't alternative substances that could do what needed to be done. Sometimes it was just a matter of expense.…

> Course, then there are cases like the leaded gasoline that should be considered one of the greatest crimes of all time. And the man who was responsible for this was also responsible for CFCs. "He had more impact on the atmosphere than any other single organism in Earth's history." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr .

http://www.cracked.com/article_16079_the-10-craziest-scienti...

I believe no truer words have been spoken than the opening of the section on Midgley in that article -

"Thomas Midgley Jr. Tried Really Hard to Destroy the World"

The man was the template for a Mad Scientist and the closest thing to a super villain there has been. It's a bit of poetic justice he died as a result of one of his own contraptions.

There is an episode of American Experience that has a part on the introduction of leaded gasoline that covers it better than the Cracked article, it's just not as funny.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/poisoners/

Re: Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

#122
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, most of the small piston-engine aircraft are designed to run on 100-octane fuel. The only practical way to get the octane that high is leaded gasoline. However, the lead levels are lower than they used to be (avgas is typically 100LL for "low-lead"). Also, general aviation only consumes about 0.1% of the transportation fuel supply, so we're talking about a minuscule fraction of the fuel consumed. More modern air…

I'm not in a panic about the lead in aviation fuel, but the relatively tiny amount of fuel used isn't really the thing you want to consider, you want to look at the absolute harm done by the use. I do realize that in this case the harm is likely extremely difficult to even estimate.

The total US lead emission from general aviation is about 500 tons per year, which in 2002 was about 45% of total lead emissions (which is higher than I'd thought). One caveat is that is an upper-bound number, not all 100LL fuel has the maximum quantity of lead additive. It's fine if it reaches 100 octane on a smaller amount. It's also a historic number: the industry is shifting towards 100 Very Low Lead type with a 20% lower TEL limit. And general aviation has been in decline for about two decades due to spiralling cost. So that number is probably on the high side.

Most of the fleet (~70%) would be OK switching to 94-octane unleaded. The biggest problem is that Congress/states have made it extremely difficult to source this type of fuel, because the overwhelming majority of fuel is produced for automotive usage. Ethanol and other mandated additive blends are unacceptable for aviation usage, and we're talking about 0.1% of the fuel market. Congress/states have put up barriers that impede a shift and they need to do something to help that overcome those barriers, not just ban 100LL.

Also, due to the nature of general aviation this is a very distributed problem. Most general aviation occurs at relatively small airfields/airstrips and there's many factors that make it difficult for GA pilots to use large airports (limited access to those airspace types, high traffic levels from commercial aviation, high ramp/fuel fees designed to discourage refueling, etc). So you've got to get 92UL available at a large number of small sites. Most small airports will carry at most two types of fuel, 100LL and Jet A1, and many will only carry 100LL. Most airports are running on super thin margins and adding 92UL would mean not carrying 100LL.

That leaves the 30% of aircraft that can't use 92UL pretty high-and-dry. Some can be modified, some will need engine replacements, a lot will be out of luck. Unfortunately they are likely concentrated at the affordable end of the fleet, and that translates into more cost increases in a sector that's already dying due to a cost spiral.

General aviation is a feeder for commercial aviation, and that's going to become an even tougher and more expensive path to follow. Going commercial requires a large number of flight hours which are typically accrued by getting an instructor license and training casual pilots - so cost increases that reduce casual pilot time percolate very directly into a reduced supply of commercial-eligible pilots. The only other route is ex-military pilots, or paying >$100k through a university (which is not commercially viable due to the ~$20k average salary of an entry-level regional pilot).

General aviation is also a neat cultural touchstone that I am sad to see shrivelling into nothing :(

Re: Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost every US child has blood work done on an annual basis? For what? What are they looking for? Lead specifically?

If your child is seeing a peditrician on a regular basis they will almost certainly test for lead levels at age 1 or 2. They do not test for it or do other blood work routinely after than unless high levels are found. I remember getting a finger stick almost every visit to the doctor as a kid, but that was just for cell counts and maybe sugar that they did in the office, not a full panel of tests.

Yes, this is what I meant but phrased it poorly above. I guess a better way to say it is that almost every child has had blood work done an annual basis. But it reads like kids get a full blood workup every year, which is not true.

Re: Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

#124
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ancient Romans knew that lead water pipes were unhealthy and so they preferred terracotta pipes. Do you have a source for this? At the same time, they used lead acetate to sweeten wine and food, which is way more dangerous. If they made the weaker connection between health and water pipes, they should have been able to connect health and this as well.

Read Vitrivius's De Architectura, specifically the part on building aqueducts. It's basically a manual for "So the Emperor told you to build a city from scratch…" As a random aside, he also includes a proof that the water level mechanism he prefers works even though the Earth is a (roughly) spherical object and not a flat plane.

Interesting, have to check if the library has a translation of this available.

Re: Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

#125
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in a panic about the lead in aviation fuel, but the relatively tiny amount of fuel used isn't really the thing you want to consider, you want to look at the absolute harm done by the use. I do realize that in this case the harm is likely extremely difficult to even estimate.

The total US lead emission from general aviation is about 500 tons per year, which in 2002 was about 45% of total lead emissions (which is higher than I'd thought). One caveat is that is an upper-bound number, not all 100LL fuel has the maximum quantity of lead additive. It's fine if it reaches 100 octane on a smaller amount. It's also a historic number: the industry is shifting towards 100 Very Low Lead type with a…

My post was not intended as an attack on GA.

Re being a commercial feeder, that's like lots of things, if individuals start refusing to bear the cost of obtaining hours, airlines will be required to make changes. They might increase pay for pilots, lobby for changes to the licensing process or provide alternative ways to get those flying hours (I'm not sure how you subsidize hours without perverse incentives, but I guess you could protect investment using loans that had forgiveness for service).

You've pointed out some purposes that GA fulfills, but you haven't addressed what harm those lead emissions are actually doing. It could be minimal. Or, it could be pretty severe when you look at the aggregate impact. At a structural, societal level, poisoning people to avoid higher direct costs for air transport is likely not a good trade-off, so it is necessary to look at both sides of it.

Re: Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

#126
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and they knew that was bad too. Probably if they had a good way of testing for lead acetate, they'd probably have thrown the occasional wine merchant to the lions. I have a copy of De re Metallica[1] it has a whole chapter on stuff like this and that's 1500's Europe. Lead is kinda tricky since it tends to get passivized most of the time by sulfate and phosphate. Except when it doesn't and then it's insidiously b…

Hoover was a pretty amazing man and a pretty miserable president. A mining engineer who made his pile working in China. He claimed he was literally first Stanford University student (he showed up days early when the college first opened and he stayed in the dorms by himself.) He and his wife (who was also a geologist) were fluent in Chinese and would speak in it if they wanted privacy. He became known for internation…

He was also chosen to tour and report on post-Second World War Germany due to his experience from similar humanitarian missions he undertook in Europe in the aftermath of the First World War.

Does anyone think that it's possible that there will be another career engineer as POTUS? I've heard that there remains a sort of stigma to such a thing, perhaps in part due to the Hoover administration.

Re: Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

#127
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://ofmpub.epa.gov/apex/safewater/f?p=136:102::::: :

It seems to be broken. Every city I enter gives me no results.

Not every city makes their reports available. Might need a FOIA request to get it.

Re: Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most houses in the U.S. built prior to a few decades ago have lead paint and many have asbestos. Then there's the whole leaded gasoline fiasco. The world has known of the danger of lead and many other dangerous substances, but often still chooses to use the dangerous substance. Sometimes it's because there weren't alternative substances that could do what needed to be done. Sometimes it was just a matter of expense.…

Course, then there are cases like the leaded gasoline that should be considered one of the greatest crimes of all time. Yep, and it's still going on. Some small planes still use leaded fuels. http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/121-a54/

Most (>95% for sure) small planes use leaded fuels. Many (probably three-quarters of the fleet, but probably less than a quarter of the gallons of avgas burned) of those planes could readily use ethanol-free unleaded avgas without significant modification.

The high powered planes are the ones that also fly the most hours and burn the most per hour, which is why the bias is so different by gallons rather than fleet size. Many of those perform critical functions (mail/parcel delivery, food delivery, remote people transport, pipeline patrol, traffic reporting, pilot training) and there is no certified replacement fuel available. The logistics are such that if an airport business has to carry leaded fuel for 75% of your avgas sales and the other 25% can also burn 100LL, there's little incentive to install duplicate tanks, fuel trucks, etc for zero additional sales of fuel.

There are promising unleaded fuels in testing (not derived from unleaded autogas) that the high-compression and turbo-charged aircraft can run without modification. The approval process via the FAA is very slow-moving, expensive, and risk-averse. (in many cases for very good reason, but it's still a significant barrier in that I cannot legally burn the prototype fuels, nor any unleaded fuels, in my aircraft).

I would switch to the GAMI fuel tomorrow if it was available for sale. For the small amount I burn per year (estimated 1500-2000 gallons), even an increase of $2/gallon would be no barrier for my adoption and the likely increase vs today is lower than that. There are other fuels also under consideration or certification testing, some of which require airframe or engine modifications, others of which are also "drop-in" replacements.

TEL really is fairly magical in terms of improving knock and detonation margins in highly stressed engines, so it's no surprise that its adoption became so widespread after World War II. The transition away from TEL is not a trivial exercise, which is why it's "taking so long" to make progress on this. The world needs a physically and chemically workable fuel, but also needs an economically workable fuel.

Re: Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

#129
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in a panic about the lead in aviation fuel, but the relatively tiny amount of fuel used isn't really the thing you want to consider, you want to look at the absolute harm done by the use. I do realize that in this case the harm is likely extremely difficult to even estimate.

The total US lead emission from general aviation is about 500 tons per year, which in 2002 was about 45% of total lead emissions (which is higher than I'd thought). One caveat is that is an upper-bound number, not all 100LL fuel has the maximum quantity of lead additive. It's fine if it reaches 100 octane on a smaller amount. It's also a historic number: the industry is shifting towards 100 Very Low Lead type with a…

Great post overall.

A few nits I'd pick. Even though 70% of the fleet could burn 94UL, that represents well under half of the gallons burned. Turbocharged engines (often in twin engine airplanes) fly far more hours than the average 7.5:1 compression piston single. Yes, flight school aircraft on the low end fly a lot, but most piston singles average under 75 hours per year and often at 8-9 gph. Turbo singles, IO550s (Cirrus and Bonanza), and turbo or IO550 twins are typically burning 1.5x that per engine and flying 2-3x the hours.

I think most of the engines that can't be easily modified to run on 94UL are concentrated on the expensive end of the fleet. Most 182s/172s/Cherokees/G-cats, etc can either already run today under the Petersen STC or could be easily modified. It's the Bonanza, Cirrus, Golden Eagle, P-Navajo, etc that need 100LL (or GAMI or similar) and can't run on 94UL. Those tend to be way more expensive than the lower end of the fleet.

Re: Unsafe Lead Levels in Tap Water Not Limited to Flint

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will for sure, I actually like it but not everyone does. You can remineralize and change the taste without too much trouble. I would avoid any other claims made for that process but it does usually improve the taste. Straight RO water is not great for coffee or tea as well.

Where does the average person find RO water?

Go to your local aquarium/tropical fish dealer and ask. They'll be able to list pretty much all the providers within a reasonable driving range.

Also lots of cities/towns have RO water providers that will sell anywhere from single gallons to thousands.

source: used to be a marine aquarium hobbyist and bought thousands of gallons of RO water to make seawater.

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