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Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

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Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#221

Post by ctlby »

saalweachter wrote: post #160
cpursley wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The guy gives crazy amounts to philanthropic causes instead. This. As a someone who leans libertarian, folks give me the "you must be greedy" look when I mention that I have an issue with income taxation. Not at all - like your friend, I'm rather selective about where I donate my money - to causes that matter to me. I'm a generous person and consider the coercion of the state to be neither altruistic nor efficient.

I'm honestly more offended by the implications that bureuacracy is a poor value proposition. Social security has minuscule overhead, government healthcare has far lower $ / covered individual than most private insurances with equal or greater satisfaction rates, while a number of private philanthropies piss away a large % of their receipts on fundraising & administrative overheads.

Bureaucracy does tend towards bloat and failure, both in the private or public sectors. I can quibble with your examples (I don't think they're appropriate), but even if we allow that they are indeed successes, for each one I can find a handful of very consequential failures (DoD, VHA, HUD, etc). Consider especially where government is tasked with providing a service, instead of shuffling money around to pay for it. This is admittedly a US-centric perspective, but why should I want to trade our poor governance for, say, European institutions with their attendant sclerosis?

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#222

Post by jacquesm »

VLM wrote: post #213
jacquesm wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applaud the mans morals but I foresee some practical complications in such trivalities as child-birth, hospitalization, estate planning (and eventual execution) and so on. None of those may apply to him and he's apparently thought this through very well but the wheels of government have a very annoying habit of grinding on with or without your consent and by placing yourself purposefully outside of the system you m…

For all practical purposes having Nicaraguan citizenship does nothing for the guy who empties the wastebaskets at work. From what little high school spanish I can remember, he seems fairly happy and unconcerned about all these supposed problems you list. He might be the first stateless person in your area, but I assure you he's unlikely to be the first non-american citizen in your area to have a child or visit the ho…

That he's unconcerned does not mean the problems of undocumented citizens aren't real. It likely means that he's simply not going to make too much of a point of it because it is not in his power to make a change.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#223

Post by [deleted] »

dalke wrote: post #216
ceejayoz wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they will charge you for it at military rates you almost certainly cannot afford Your link says "We charge you the equivalent of a full coach commercial fare on a comparable mode of transportation at the time that commercial travel ceases to be a viable option."

In a parallel thread, mike_hearn links to https://goatpath.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/how-much-can-an-ev... . The 45 minute flight from Port Au Prince, Haiti (after the earthquake) to Santo Domingo, DR cost $841.11. I think this is because 'full coach commercial fare' is the most expensive coach option. Very few ever purchase it, excepting those who want full flexibility to change the schedule without extra fees, or re…

[deleted]

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#224

Post by greggman »

smazero wrote: post #199

The use of the term "expat" rather than "immigrant" is interesting. I read a piece in the guardian the other day which framed that distinction in terms of white vs non-white ( http://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-... ), but it's obviously a bit more complicated than that. I don't think the two terms are synonyms, but they are very close, and once you try to pick apart the differences, I think t…

2 thoughts .

Immigrant: person who's moved to a new country indefinitely

Expat: person who's moved to a different country temporarily

Also a 2nd definition from my personal experience

Expat: a person sent temporarily to another country by their company. Usually they are in $300k+ a year job and their company pays their relocation expenses and their rent.

As someone who has lived abroad for 8 years of my own choice, in other words I don't fit that 2nd definition of "expat", it was an eye opener how the 1% lives because there are entire industries set up to cater to them. Before I lived abroad I never saw that but living abroad all the English magazines target those type 2 expats and are full of ads for services far far beyond anything I could possibly afford. Example: ads for apartments starting at $6k a month to $20k a month plus. So, suddenly I was acutely aware of just how big a different there is.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#225

Post by Symbiote »

wlesieutre wrote: post #207
nvarsj wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also an expat, living in the UK. The FBAR isn't too bad at all, it takes 30 minutes to file electronically if your records are in order. The real burden is filing my annual taxes. I'm a contractor with a limited liability company, common setup in the UK. However in the US, this is treated as me having financial interest in a foreign C-Corp, which has an extremely complicated tax return. Fortunately I have a famil…

I've heard elsewhere that foreign banks were closing down accounts of American expats because the customers aren't worth the FATCA paperwork. Have you encountered any trouble with that?

That can happen. One of my colleagues had this problem, except he solved it by not being American (he'd not returned a form which they'd sent, asking him to confirm his lack of American citizenship).

I expect the reporting requirements are a burden for small banks, especially ones competing heavily on price rather than offering a full service. I'm not American, but am a similar burden to a bank, and was strongly advised to open an account only with the country's largest bank.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#226

Post by Spoom »

Estragon wrote: post #177
dalke wrote: post #9

American citizens have to pay $2,350 to renounce citizenship? What kind of paperwork costs that much? (Or, why not just add more paperwork and charge $100K?) http://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/renouncing-us-citiz... > 1. Consular officers must confirm that the potential renunciant fully understands the consequences of renunciation, including losing the right to reside in the United States without documentation…

It cost $750 to become a citizen, last time I checked.

Naturalization applicant here: Current N-400 fees are $680 including biometrics[1]. Used to be a lot more, closer to $1000.

(That is certainly not counting the thousands of dollars to get to the point where I was eligible for naturalization.)

1. https://www.uscis.gov/n-400

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#227

Post by benpbenp »

kingosticks wrote: post #203
klunger wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an American in Norway... I thought you only had to file FATCA for bank accounts that had more than $10,000 USD in them at some point in the past year. Not a few hundred. Are you sure about that? (if so, oh sh*t)

From https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/FATCA-Informatio... Taxpayers with a total value of specified foreign financial assets below a certain threshold do not have to file Form 8938 From https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Do-I-need-to-fil... You must file Form 8938 if: 1. You are a specified individual. tick! 2. You have an interest in specified foreign financial assets required to be reported. tic…

Not sure if you are aware of this or not but Form 8938 is different from FBAR. FBAR is filed with the department of the treasury and the threshold is only $10,000.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#228

Post by anothermouse »

I am British, and am married to an american. My wife moved to the UK and has never worked since. I had no idea about her obligation to file anything. She's been here for over a decade.

Like a lot of people we use a joint bank account. My salary, and anything else goes in there.

A couple of years ago I sold my flat in central London, and had 400K (600K USD) in there at various points. I have no idea how to bring my wife into compliance, as if I do, she will be expected to hand over 25% of the maximum balance of this account for every year it was undeclared to a maximum of 5 years. I.E. 125% of the maximum balance!

She remains unaware, and I don't file for her. We'd risk losing our house (brought with the proceeds of the previous sale), if I attempt to fix this. I live in absolute dread of the IRS, and what they may do to our happy family.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#229

Post by m_mueller »

patio11 wrote: post #197
m_mueller wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blows my mind that you people can't even vote when living abroad. As a Swiss, the embassy registers me in either my home canton or my last residential canton for votes (i.e. all the people referendums) and elections. They send me the voting letters to my Japanese home address. Free of charge. Things like this and the Flint water scandal make me want to never work in the US, even if it's just a year. Dealing with your…

They send me the voting letters to my Japanese home address. Free of charge. I get letters like that, too, also addressed to Japan but bearing a conspicuous bald eagle. An American citizen is a resident of the last state one had legal residence in for voting purposes even if one has no particular intent to return to it. One's friendly local State Department employee will happily confirm this: http://travel.state.gov/…

Thanks for the heads up, looks like P had some false information.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#230

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

dalke wrote: post #155
robk wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you come across anyone who has been fined under this law? I have not and know many people who are rubbish at filing on time or even in the same year. I've not seen any enforcement commensurate with $20k fines willy nilly. Not that I like the law, I've just not seen it enforced.

For FBAR? There's an amnesty program in place which was introduced during the summer of 2014, which is better than then fines possible under the voluntary disclosure program. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/06/18/irs-announ... . That reduced the outrage some. Before then, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-taxes-foreign-idUSTRE7... reports that after 26 months of work, and at one time with a likely…

How does the US enforce this?

What happens if someone with no plans to visit the US and no income from the US that could be garnished says "So - come and get it if you want it"?

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