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Apple Ordered to Pay $625M to Patent Troll in FaceTime Lawsuit

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Re: Apple Ordered to Pay $625M to Patent Troll in FaceTime Lawsuit

#61

Post by shawabawa3 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #58
comex wrote: post #45

Almost as much as the $1B Apple was originally supposed to win from Samsung for equally silly patents. (It's since been slashed down to a tenth of that, but still.) Is it too much to say "live by the sword, die by the sword"?

What would you do if you were Apple? Would VirnetX have refused to go after them just because Apple had not gone after Samsung for "equally silly" patents? Seems like what you really want to say is "don't hate the player, hate the game."

> Seems like what you really want to say is "don't hate the player, hate the game."

More like, "Hate the game, and hate the player for playing it"

Instead of everyone joining in the patent suing racket, these big players should be lobbying for the laws to be changed

Re: Apple Ordered to Pay $625M to Patent Troll in FaceTime Lawsuit

#62

Post by such_a_casual »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #20

I have a modest proposal to get rid of these patent trolls and these ridiculous settlements that typically are decided by a jury of West Texas farmers. Patents ought to be designated a non-transferrable property. Inventors may create a trust that receives patent revenues, and direct those revenues to any entity they please (their own company, their heirs, another company, a charity, etc.) but would not be able to act…

Or how about we hard delete all software patents since they are absolutely ridiculous? Goodbye $600mil flow charts.

Re: Apple Ordered to Pay $625M to Patent Troll in FaceTime Lawsuit

#63

Post by rms_returns »

Retric wrote: post #49
bbarn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this. Is there some paid off official there? Different standards? Why is it such a great place to win patent troll suits - which seem to get overturned in higher courts? Is the idea that a win there will stop the defendant from trying to appeal?

Systemic corruption. The area benefits from having lot's of Patent cases.

Then why doesn't your White House or Obama do something about it? (non-US citizen here).

Re: Apple Ordered to Pay $625M to Patent Troll in FaceTime Lawsuit

#64

Post by ethbro »

gnaritas wrote: post #13
ethbro wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we really need are patent co-ops. The problem as I see it is: patents exist to allow innovators to get paid for their inventions (setting aside the USPTO not being able to do its job correctly due to under-funding and granting bad patents), patents therefore have a monetary value, however that monetary value in fact scales with the monetary resources of the company it's held by (i.e. small companies cannot legal…

> The problem as I see it is: patents exist to allow innovators to get paid for their inventions That is not why patents exist. Patents exist for the good of mankind to convince innovators to share their trade secrets with the public. Paying those innovators is not the goal, it is the means by which the goal is achieved, making the inventions public. You've confused the carrot for the end goal. Anyone wanting to thin…

If there were any worldwide system of incentivization and value that was non-monetary, I'd be inclined to agree with you. As the world exists, paying inventors == convincing innovators to share their trade secrets with the public.

Unless you'd like to offer feasible alternatives?

Re: Apple Ordered to Pay $625M to Patent Troll in FaceTime Lawsuit

#65

Post by ethbro »

Retric wrote: post #10
ethbro wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we really need are patent co-ops. The problem as I see it is: patents exist to allow innovators to get paid for their inventions (setting aside the USPTO not being able to do its job correctly due to under-funding and granting bad patents), patents therefore have a monetary value, however that monetary value in fact scales with the monetary resources of the company it's held by (i.e. small companies cannot legal…

The problem is defecting becomes valuable. If I have a great patent, then selling to a troll let's me 'cash out' without needing actual customers.

Defecting being an optimal play is something that could be addressed via co-op rules.

But that's my entire point. Currently, selling out to a patent troll (ignoring patents obtained from bankruptcies) is honestly the smartest move if you're a small company with a great patent. We should give such a company more socially-beneficial alternatives.

Re: Apple Ordered to Pay $625M to Patent Troll in FaceTime Lawsuit

#67

Post by ethbro »

maxerickson wrote: post #46
ethbro wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we really need are patent co-ops. The problem as I see it is: patents exist to allow innovators to get paid for their inventions (setting aside the USPTO not being able to do its job correctly due to under-funding and granting bad patents), patents therefore have a monetary value, however that monetary value in fact scales with the monetary resources of the company it's held by (i.e. small companies cannot legal…

MPEG-LA is pretty much a patent coop.

There's an example. I suppose most standards/patent agreements are something similar.

Of course, caveat about standards being written and covering parents held by larger players.

Re: Apple Ordered to Pay $625M to Patent Troll in FaceTime Lawsuit

#68

Post by djrogers »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #61
rootusrootus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you do if you were Apple? Would VirnetX have refused to go after them just because Apple had not gone after Samsung for "equally silly" patents? Seems like what you really want to say is "don't hate the player, hate the game."

> Seems like what you really want to say is "don't hate the player, hate the game." More like, "Hate the game, and hate the player for playing it" Instead of everyone joining in the patent suing racket, these big players should be lobbying for the laws to be changed

>Instead of everyone joining in the patent suing racket, these big players should be lobbying for the laws to be changed

Except you have to do both - if you ignore the racket you are much more exposed to lawsuits. Patents are used defensively between companies like Apple and Samsung, and if you give up that defense while trying to change the laws you are severely exposed. Tough balancing act..

The flip side of it is that I don't think we're likely to see these laws change until the current 2 party corrupt system is torn apart. Congress is completely bought and sold on both sides of the aisle and their owners like the current system (more laws = more lawsuits = more $$ for lawyers).

Re: Apple Ordered to Pay $625M to Patent Troll in FaceTime Lawsuit

#69

Post by ethbro »

nemild wrote: post #43
ethbro wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we really need are patent co-ops. The problem as I see it is: patents exist to allow innovators to get paid for their inventions (setting aside the USPTO not being able to do its job correctly due to under-funding and granting bad patents), patents therefore have a monetary value, however that monetary value in fact scales with the monetary resources of the company it's held by (i.e. small companies cannot legal…

Why not a bounty amongst the industry for whoever takes a patent troll to court and wins? The way it works now is that most defendants want to settle because the legal costs are too high for the defendant, and the patent trolls know this. If the defendants pooled their money for anyone who took them to court and won (not even a full patent co-op, which has its own challenges) - would that change how the patent trolls…

I was looking at it the other way: how to disincentivize selling patents to trolls by increasing value to smaller companies, but I suppose it is equally valid on the other side.

I think the biggest problem with fighting patent trolls after they've acquired the patents is that they're not really businesses. So you win... who's to say they'll pay? They have a lot of organizational options available to them that actual, functioning businesses likely do not.

Aka don't fight a battle on terrain where your opponent has greater flexibility than you

I'd be more inclined to fight the actual trolls politically. A) They don't create jobs, B) they've got relatively small financial reserves compared to a larger functioning business, and C) they probably fly flag-of-convenience corporate registration with minimal interaction with the state (not that that's probably rare)

Re: Apple Ordered to Pay $625M to Patent Troll in FaceTime Lawsuit

#70

Post by rms_returns »

nemild wrote: post #43
ethbro wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we really need are patent co-ops. The problem as I see it is: patents exist to allow innovators to get paid for their inventions (setting aside the USPTO not being able to do its job correctly due to under-funding and granting bad patents), patents therefore have a monetary value, however that monetary value in fact scales with the monetary resources of the company it's held by (i.e. small companies cannot legal…

Why not a bounty amongst the industry for whoever takes a patent troll to court and wins? The way it works now is that most defendants want to settle because the legal costs are too high for the defendant, and the patent trolls know this. If the defendants pooled their money for anyone who took them to court and won (not even a full patent co-op, which has its own challenges) - would that change how the patent trolls…

I have an even better idea. Why not the industry just maintain a blacklist of trolls? The said troll will not get any support in the IT industry wherever he goes across the USA. From hardware to software to networking, the troll will be deprived of services. Not just that, the tech blogs in the industry can also defame the trolls, so one day that understand the consequences and think thrice before trolling.
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